Nat Fleisher's Top 10 Heavyweights

Muhammad Ali's name should definitely have appeared on Fleisher's list. In 1968 he was out of boxing, so his career was "technically" over as far as anyone knew. He had never lost, had 10 title fight wins and victories over two solid champs in Liston and Patterson.

 

The timekeeper informed first Fleischer that the fight was over because he could not get the attention of Walcott. Actually the timekeeper f*cked up too .

" Under the rules, the timekeeper is supposed to start the count at the time of a knockdown. The referee's duty is to get the boxer scoring the knockdown to a neutral corner, pick up the count from the timekeeper and continue it aloud for the knocked down boxer. Under the rules of the Maine Commission, the referee was authorized to stop his count if a boxer refused to go to the proper corner. "It might have been better if Walcott had stopped the count (by the knockdown timekeeper) until Clay went to the neutral corner and then started again," said Duncan MacDonald, a commission member. "

 

Great article that although he goes a bit too far.

Some of the names mentioned there do look the goods to me: Johnson, Langford, Gans, McGovern all look like elite level boxers.

 

And a writer, and the publisher and an author.

 

I never said Schmeling was top 10. I said there's no compelling reason why Charles is more deserving of a top 10 rating.

Who would you say were the best 10 heavies pre-1968?

 

To bring the comedy full circle, in Bob Mee's "Ali and Liston, The Boy Who Would Be King and the Ugly Bear the timekeeper Francis McDonough, laid the blame on Ali:

"I'll tell you whose fault the whole lousy thing was. It was that lousy bum Clay. If Clay had gone to a neutral corner like he was supposed to, this whole thing wouldn't have happened. The bum shouldn't be allowed to fight any more. He shouldn't be called champion.

I am beginning to change my opinion now. I don't think there is any way we landed on the moon!

 

Nailed it

 

I'm also surprised there's been no mention of Wills. In fact, maybe surprised is the wrong word. Pre 68 he's atleast on the cusp

 

My partner is not convinced anyone ever did!

 

Is there any evidence that Bert Sugar is the Nat Fleisher's ******* son?

 

Generally an historian does not rate a fighter as an ATG unless their career was over or close to over. By the time of Nats death in 72 Ali was generally only thought of as a fringe ATG. Very few listed him all time. It took his win over Foreman and his epic clash with Frazier in Manilla to lift Ali into an ATG level.

 

People nearly always consider the older fighter better at the time, when Joe Louis was champ no one considered him the best ever, when Ali was champ the likes of Willard claimed Corbett was a better HW.

 

Never be surprised about racism and discrimination.......plus general ignorance

 

Liston was never rated that highly by most historians. He was perceived to be a monster prior to fighting Ali but losing the worlds hwt championship sitting on his stool and the circumstances of fight two changed that perception. Losing the championship sitting on your stool is the worst thing a fighter can do in terms of ATG status. Hard to rate someone who quits so easily alongside those that went through hell and back against top challengers and not only never quit but came out on top.