Who have better left hook Morrison or Frazier?

Watch the video. Frazier lands the hook. Ellis barely gets up. Dundee then stops the fight between rounds. The hook took Ellis out of the fight. The fight ended essentially because of one Frazier left hook.

Who did Morrison take out with one left hook? Art Tucker, an end of the road Razor Ruddock? That's about it.

 

Jimmy Ellis was the WBA champ when Frazier kod him. Are you really saying Doug Jones was better than Ellis at the time either fought Frazier?

Anyway, knocking down the iron jawed Ali near the end of their first fight with the hook - and watch it again - it is a very legitimate knockdown, is enough to show Frazier had a great hook.

 

The left hook that landed with bang on 50 seconds to go in the 11th is probably the biggest shot in the FOTC and it hurt Ali really bad, the other short hook straight after was very nearly the finishing shot.

http://youtu.be/6RuhBXULCXQ

 

No, Joe was not a southpaw, nor did he box out of the southpaw stance. He broke his left arm trying to wrestle a hog on the family farm as a boy, it didn't set properly, so he couldn't straighten it out. Nonetheless, as he showed in his rematch with Jerry Quarry, he did have a fine left jab and right hand when the opportunity to use them against an opponent of comparable height and reach presented itself. (George Chuvalo has emphasized repeatedly that Joe's right hand was nothing to sneeze at, and with a broken left thumb on his hand for the 1964 Olympic finals, he won that Gold Medal primarily with his right hand. He was far from a one handed fighter, although he sometimes fought like it. If I could have only one good hand as an orthodox boxer though, I'd rather have it be my left than my right, which is 80% a defensive utility when used properly anyway.)

Yes, I do think he had a "better" left hook than Tommy, by virtue of being far more serviceable. It gave him a great body attack for attrition and point scoring purposes, while Morrison was stamina challenged against opponents not old enough to be his father (like Foreman). Joe out-hooked Jerry Quarry in their first match as they went past the opening two rounds. (JQ unloaded 57 hooks in that blistering opening rounds, 20 of those hooks to Frazier's body, and 93 punches in all during those three minutes to Joe's overall total of 64 punches in the same time span, but Frazier was more relaxed, and Jerry's pace was completely unsustainable. A case might be made that if anybody ever out-hooked Joe over the course of an entire bout, Ali might have done it in Manila by repeatedly spinning Frazier's head on the inside with double hooks as Joe slowly bore his way into the corners after Muhammad.)

Having mentioned Jerry Quarry, might as well point out that Frazier sank JQ to a knee in their rematch with a hook to the body. No, he didn't drop many for the count (this doesn't happen that much at the world class level in boxing), but he's the only one to do it to Doug Jones and Ziggy. As Ziggy, Terry Daniels, Eddie Machen, Manuel Ramos and Bob Foster showed (and 64 opening round punches in JQ I is a perfectly respectable pace for a 15 round match), he was certainly a far faster starter than Norton (whose win against Bobick was one of the craziest anomalies in HW history), Palomino, Michael Spinks or Danny Lopez. (I don't include Lyle among history's slow starting heavy punchers, because Big Ron made a deliberate choice not to ever knock out opponents in the opening round, but instead make up for lost time by developing his stamina and skills. He actually went after Jimmy Young twice for the learning experiences to make himself better. When talking about heavyweights who were willing to take on anybody and everybody, Lyle's at the top of my list. RESPECT!)

Manuel Ramos actually fought Frazier about as perfectly as the Mexican champion could have. He caught Joe coming in with uppercuts from both hands, tried to make Frazier's aggression work against him, but Joe was too relentless. Forcing Frazier backwards, in and of itself with superior physical strength, wasn't sufficient either, as Chuvalo, Stander and Cummings discovered. Foreman was/is a total freak of nature. Whatever formula was used to defeat Joe, greatness had damned well better be one of those ingredients.

 

I have the fight, I know what happened. imo Morrison hit harder ,Frazier quicker, and he was also quicker to reload.
It isn't a subject I'm too bothered about arguing over.

 

Stopping Ziggy doesn't cut much ice with me. Jones was on the way out too. Ramos quit imo.

 

I'm saying Jones was the best fighter Frazier KNOCKED OUT.

It seems pretty clear to me?:huh
Cooper hurt Ali more in their first fight than Frazier's knockdown hook did.

 

Right. Frazier indicated to Jim Clash that his final hook in Ellis I may indeed have been the hardest hook of his career, and that the left hook he buckled Ali with at 0:46 seconds left in round 11 was another possibility. (Muhammad saw the final round KD punch coming, and tried to ride that perfectly timed shot out, so it didn't have the impact in mid ring of the knee buckler against the ropes in round 11 of the FOTC. Unlike the KD punch, Ali did not see the earlier knee buckler coming, and would only have been able to duck if trying to avoid it anyway. Muhammad usually only ducked underneath taller opponents like Blue Lewis and Joe Bugner.) Joe also reminded fans privately that he wasn't on the receiving end of those punches, so he wasn't completely qualified to say just how hard they landed.)

 

It was the shot with 0:50 seconds left that was the monster shot, nearly took Ali's head off.

 

All true. But Ziggy does reveal a much faster start than Frazier is stereotyped as having, and Ziggy had never been floored. Jones was on the way out, but he was still 29, and was otherwise never counted out, and did rebound by handing Kirkman his first defeat in Seattle. Doug wasn't knocked down much in his career. He came off the deck in the opening round to drop and stop Folley in their second bout, and got floored in 11 as Chuvalo stopped him, but Joe uniquely got a ten count.

There's no imo about it. Ramos did quit at the end of round two, and the way things were going, I don't question his judgment. He was nearly floored late in the first, twice in the second, had landed his best shots, and his opponent was coming on stronger and stronger. Like Max Baer said after Louis, payment entitled fans to see a fight, not a funeral. Ramos didn't have the chin or stamina to stand up to Frazier, and knew it. We saw what happens in that situation later with Ziggy, Daniels and Bob Foster.

Ramos was a 6'4" guy with a good thumping body attack. He wasn't going to beat Frazier with that tactic. He wasn't going to bull a guy backwards that much shorter who had that much lower a center of gravity who he only outweighed by less than five pounds. We all know he really didn't even belong in the same ring with Joe, and by the end of round two, he acknowledged that to Arthur Mercante. However, for as long as it lasted, he did the best he could, tried catching Frazier coming in with right and left uppercuts, and attempted to get him out quickly before it became a war of attrition he had no hope of winning. He understood the value of a great body attack, and knew full well the only body in this situation which was going to be a target was his own.

Once he also realized he didn't have the stereotypical Mexican chin or capacity for absorbing tremendous amounts of punishment, he called it a night, but it was a decent and honest effort as long as it lasted. Murray Rose and other reporters from ringside lauded his effort, described it as a thrilling battle, and detailed the facial damage Ramos sustained in just six minutes of action. It was no tank job, he was simply over-matched.

 

Frazier worked you but he had wicked power on the hook when his Big leg was behind it coming up. He could not always land it clean but Ali in the 11th and 15th and the body work. Frazier could grind you when he had to but the hook had power to take you out until rd 15

Ellis was pretty durable but the Frazier hook was brutal against him

 

Smokin' Joe's all day long! No insult to the Duke, too bad he didn't get the respect he deserved while he was alive.

 

Perfect:good

 

Ziggy was a short, unskilled 190-lb cruiserweight. Not sure that jumping on someone like him reveals any such thing.

 

I agree 100%, while Morrison did have a powerful left hook, Fraziers was proven against much better competition.