Liston vs 1974 Ali.

Again the bout was extensively investigated the weeks after the bout. No evidence of a fix was found. Neither Liston, his handlers, Ali or his handlers or anyone associated with the fight were fined or suspended due to a discovery that a fix occurred. Why? No fix had occurred.

 

The first Ali Liston bout was no fix. Ali beat up an over confident older champion. Again Liston quitting on his stool is a main reason he is not rated highly all time.

 

That is not true.
Tell us who extensively investigated it.
Provide sources.

The governor of Maine requested a full field investigation by the FBI.
The FBI spent a couple of days interviewing a few people associated with the fight, said the results were mixed and refused to do any more. That's it.

 

If anyone--anyone--thought that fight was clean, it doesn't end up in Lewiston, Maine. No offense to the fine people in Lewiston.

That's why Dempsey doesn't bother to go. People don't have to like him, but he could see the writing on the wall.

So, when something that looks like a fix happened in a fight where boxing expected a fix, it's pretty easy to believe it was a fix. The fight was dirty.

 

Not trolling at all. All very clear as long as you are not one who believes in conspiracy theories. (The uneducted approach)

No evidence that either bout was in any way fixed. Lots of people giving uneducated opinions yes, lots of people trying to sell books yes. Neither however are looking at the evidence.

 

Very intelligently written article void of the conspiracy theories commonly used by those trying to lure the uneducted.

http://fightnetwork.com/news/6381406:ali-vs-liston-2-what-really-happened/

 

The evidence is in the films of both bouts. You citing claims that are unsubstantiated by fact are invalid. Claiming some long dead maffia gangster claimed he heard the bout was fixed is not evidence. Hearsay yes, evidence no.

 

I think you betray your own ignorance railing about conspiracies.

Every fight is a conspiracy. All it takes to make a conspiracy, is two or more people working together toward the same end.

You need a more literate talking point mantra.

 

This!

 

Ali wins. I'm not sure why people have such a hard-on for Liston. I'm not saying he wasn't a great fighter but people on this forum have retrospectively turned him into something much bigger than he ever was.

He struggled with Johnny Summerlin twice early in his career, he lost to a 180 Lb. Marty Marshall (he also suffered a broken jaw in this fight), Eddie Machen gave him a good fight.

Niño Valdes was washed up. Cleveland Williams wasn't shlt... quit making him out to be more than what he was.

Patterson and Folley were good fighters but not the most durable HWs ever and neither was more than 6' or 200 Lbs. Patterson had more power than Folley but was down more than any other HW Champ in history (20 times).

Ali easily defeated Liston in '64 during a time when he was still improving.

Ali had quicker hands and better footwork. Ali was accurate, durable, and had great stamina. Ali was Ali and Liston was not Ali... that's gotta count for something! Come on man! Ali beat HW champs Liston x2, Patterson x2, Terrell, Frazier 2 out 3, Ellis, Norton 2 out of 3, Foreman, and L. Spinks. He also beat Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Bugner, Shavers, Lyle, and other good HWs.

Liston was too slow and too predictable for Ali.