Problems I had with Frazier vs Foreman I

For those of you that may have watched it, you may have noticed that the ref does a very bad job in this as he allows Foreman to repeatedly get away with just shoving Joe away and pushing him to the side in order to set up his clubbing shots. Frazier actually has a fair degree of success in getting to Foreman early on and lands some decent left hooks and jabs. Foreman has trouble controlling range and keeping Frazier off him. With a different ref I think it would be interesting to see how Foreman wold have coped if he hadn't been allowed manhandle Frazier and repeatedly shove him back with full on pushes. The ref should have addressed this early.

This brings me to my other point. It may seem bizarre to criticize Foreman in a fight where he blasted out such a high profile opponent - but I've always been bothered by his tactics in this. Very little use of the jab, no real success at keeping Frazier at bay and rather untidy, wild punches. Frazier did most of his best work in close, so I would have expected Foreman to box and use his jab to set up his power shots. But crucially he seemed unable to do this and was allowed to get away with resorting to pushes and shoves followed by wild swings that left him prime to be caught square from a left hook - Frazier's marquee punch.

As it happened, Foreman's power and roughhousing was too much for Frazier but I do think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened with a different ref. As Ali showed, Foreman could be prone to punching himself out with his big swings and the drawback of having power is that you often don't get into later rounds. Frazier for me was reasonably successful at getting to Foreman early on made possible by Foreman neglecting the jab. Had it gone on for longer with a ref that wouldn't let Foreman away with his pushing I think it would have been interesting. Such was Foreman's power that the result may very well, have been the same once he landed a big one. But I do think the ref and his tactics made it far easier than it should/could have been.

 

I thought Foreman landed a couple of really hard jabs.

I agree that Foreman's pushing was a major key to the way he won the fight. Without it he would have been pressed to shorten his punches dramatically, against an awkward crowding target. But he was so solid, strong and powerful, even with lessened effectiveness he would have taken a toll on Frazier within a few rounds.

 

Frazier did not have a lot of brute strength to him nor was he athletic in the classical sense. Foreman took advantage of that. Frazier never really had a jab that mattered, nor did he have the one punch power to shank Foreman up.

It was a mismatch, and bad style match up for Frazier.

 

That was a strategy by the Foreman camp. To push and shove or even to jab the inside part of Joe's shoulder. It would twist his torso because George was so strong in there. They knew they could send Joe off balance and then he'd have to re-set himself and his footwork & then try coming in again.

Part B of the strategy was once they did it a few times, to launch uppercuts. From both hands, and not just the right hand. And Joe would get hit walking into them.

 

Hard to argue with George's plan or performance. **** Saddler told George "take charge early George". And he did. The ref should have stopped it much earlier.

 

You seem to be in love with frazier. Only way you can discredit george. It is just the way he fought. He was a thug.

Frazier never ever beats foreman. No matter how hard frazier fan boys want to come up with every other fantasy scenario in the book to make it happen.

 

and he did, constantly.

Foreman vs Frazier is one of the best examples of gameplanning.

 

I disagree that Frazier never beats Foreman.

 

That was still cheap though. That shouldn't have been allowed.

 

Sure you do. I have no problem with that. But I can't help to think how ridiculous it is. To each their own!

 

You don't think Frazier would win a hypothetical once if him and Foreman fought 1000 times?

 

that would never happen. so no

 

I know but if it did, could you see Joe winning at least once? What would he have to do?

 

The best ref in the game perhaps of all time was in that ring that night. He warned Foreman several times for pushing. However after the first minute and a half or so pushing was a mute point. It became a one sided massacre very quickly. No Frazier at any time would do well vs Foreman.....he had two cracks both ended with disasterous consequences. You can see a spray of Fraziers teeth in the air after the final Foreman punch in fight two. The key blows were the very awesome Foreman jab that actually staggered Frazier early on followed by a perfect right uppercut. Prime Foremans uppercut was the most devastating single punch in hwt history. Fighting in a crouch in attack mode it was and would be a matter of time before that blow would land. George would need one punch to hurt Joe enough to eventually end the fight.

 

Don't you think the ref should have stopped the fight sooner?