CLASSIC FIGHT NIGHT THREAD:Wilder-Fury II

You don't think that the fully evolved super heavyweight era has seen a decline in traditional skill?

If Wlad could slip a jab (something he has never had to do) you would not be talking about "this version" of Wlad. He would have won and you would be unable to detect a decline in him. What was different about the Pulev performance? Oh yes Wlad was in his comfort zone.

Part of the advantage of the Superheavyweight is that being so big the pace actually suits older fighters. Older fighters also have experience to draw from. The biggest rule and guys get bigger the older they get.

 

Fury would always have beaten Wlad.

Wlad was reluctant of letting his hands go because he was concerned of what would be coming back his way.

Everytime Fury landed Wladmir was shook.

Its all good picking on smaller guys or big oafs with no skill, as soon as he stepped inside with someone who could box and was the same size, he was running around the ring like a clueless Muppet.

And not only that, he didn't even try to win, he was more worried about being knocked out.

 

This is a pathetic excuse on the same level as the Brewster drug affair.

When was Wlad anything more than what he was last night? He was always horribly one dimensional with zero adaptability or plan B .

He excelled against C level opposition with no skills and no movement.

Rewind back to 2008 when Wlad was supposedly at his best against Sultan Ibragimov.
He spent 12 whole rounds doing nothing but slapping Iggy's fist in a performance no better than he produced last night.

Before that he couldn't land a glove on Williamson and got decked for trying too hard before he was pulled from the fight out of exhaustion.

Exactly when has he ever knocked out somebody like Fury who used intelligent feinting , constant movement and elusive upper body movement??.
Those factors shut Wlads style down completely and it had nothing to do with being old , since Wlad was in impeccable shape and had his best round in the 12th.
Wlads one basic style is all he has and its based largely on single shots followed by excessive clinching.
Good movement and versatility would always over come that style and a relative novice like Fury used it to win 11 rounds to 1.

 

In some ways I do, Tyson had much better movement and hand speed and was able to totally nullify Wlad with what seemed like relative ease.

But some would say that Wlad is too big for Frazier, not necessarily better but bigger. Would the same be said about Frazier vs Fury?

Fury didn't dictate range like a traditional SHW, he wasn't just longer he did it by being quicker which leaves him a but more open to smaller HW types.

Cunningham, McDermott, Pajkic, Chisora were all able to land on Fury without too much difficulty.

I would argue Fur has never looked world class until the rematch over Derek where again he won by utilising hand and foot speed.

For a long time I thought Wlad was just better then his opposition but now I think sometimes he was just the bigger man.

If Haye got a shot at Fury I would expect it to be over quite quickly.

 

Wlad got away with a blatant head butt and continually turning away from his opponent,which caused the punches to the back of the head. The referee should have warned Klitschko for turning away from the action and holding around the head but he did not.That point deduction was directly caused by by Wlad turning away. Bad night for the referee ,a good night for boxing.

 

I'm not buying the past prime excuses, two fights ago against Pulev, he looked better than he ever has.

He is one dimensional just that one dimension is incredibly hard to beat.

But if your comparable in size and are able to beat him to the punch, you should beat him.

 

People have been saying it for years but it was finally confirmed last night.

Klitsckos have been ruling due to their size and size alone.

If Wladmir was so skilled, why did he have absolutely no answer for anything Fury did?

He got thoroughly schooled and that point deduction was stupid as well.

Laugh at Holmes all you can, at least his fights with Spinks were actually competitive as were Alis with Nortons.

Wladmir was taken to school, the school of boxing.

 

At 6' 9'' and 85'', Fury sets a new record for height in a lineal heavyweight champion, and he is tied with Primo Carnera for the greatest reach.

 

Who's laughing at Holmes and how is that relevant?

The fact he is able to dominate with his size does make him great though, even if not p4p, in terms of actual fights though there still aren't many you would expect to beat him. Even less would be expected to beat Vitali.

 

Yet ironically he seems quite beatable against traditional sized HW fighters.

 

The thing I worked out about Fury (and I watched all of his fights) was that for all he never looked that good i realised in doing so Tyson was willing to try a lot of different things because his size advantage allowed him to make up for mistakes and along the way became (for this day and age) a very seasoned yet young contender. Usually a highly invested in, manufactured prospect works completely from a template but here was a refreshing kid from (lets face it) a community that lives by their own rules and winds up being a very well rounded, effective, if unpredictable and untidy. It worked for him.

Now, can Fury have less chance against Haye and if so does this prove Wlad has declined? These are completely different fighters. However, it is intresting that Haye retired rather than fight Fury.

Haye should have beat Wlad quickly himself but he was much too cautious and allowed Wlad to stay within his comfort zone. As a manufactured heavyweight Haye really did not have the confidence in his own stamina to up the pace in the way a smaller guy really has to. Wlad was less of a giant than the ludicrously proportioned Valuev but was a technician with a better grasp of utilising his advantages. And here's the the thing, Wlad and guys like him can only work within advantages.

Generally SHW's are not good boxers. They're just big and know how to use an advantage.

 

I think Wlad would always beat Haye tbh. He was an athletic SHW so could make his advantages count.

Had Fury been slower of foot or hand he'd have lost as well, but he never allowed Wlad time to set himself and was popping off just enough punches of his own.

Fury was able to out box Wlad but would he be able to impose himself against all those smaller than he in the way Wlad did?

It's the first time in a long time the division is exciting.

When Lewis retired we expected Vitali to clean up but instead he retired and when he came back he was happy to co-rule and Wlad wasn't an exciting fighter. Now we have excitement back and we have genuine competitive matches, Wlad v Fury rematch is 50/50 Fury v Wilder is 50/50 Fury v Povetkin is 50/50.

Soon Chisora and Helenius will rematch and we'll have another contender ready to test themselves at the highest level as well.

This is the start of a great era and I'm chuffed I was there to witness it.

 

And the same should have applied to Wlad. The fact it did not has as much to do with changes in gloves, length of fights, the officiating and training than in Wlads experience, excelent condition and professionalism. That's what made Wlad Dominate as long as he did. The SHW have had a lot going for them.

Let's see if Tyson can be quite so disciplined? If he can the world's his lobster.

 

My gut feeling is that Fury will be a short reigning lineal champion.

We might even see the lineal title change hands a few times, as the division sorts itself out.

For now though, it is going to be quite some Christmas in the Fury household!

 

That many? Ok, thanks.