Can Fury be an ATG?

Do you think Wlad is finished IB???? Should he ditch Banks and then go from there, or does he just regroup and give it another go? I've always thought the serious decline started after Steward died and Banks took over as trainer. Of course father times played a role too.... Anyways, regardless I think he's more than capable of beating Fury if he's even a little more aggressive, and actually let his hands go. I don't understand this talk about there being no way he EVER beats Fury, or not standing a chance in the rematch. He's not an idiot. He knows where he messed up, and I'm sure he's going to let his hands fly when they square off again.

 

That was the first time in a longtime that the best heavy in the world lost. And the guy who did it was a gypsy. What does that say about the state of heavies?

 

Ditching Banks would be stupid, actually. That is his last remaining link to his "routine" with Steward, his greatest benefactor (and the guy that fixed a lot of what plagued Wlad under Zdunek's slapdash tutelage). Banks on his own isn't a great trainer or adding much new, but he is a bridge to what brought Wlad his successes, and getting away from that and listening to a new voice in the corner is only going to confuse him and lead to disaster. He's too old a dog to be learning new tricks or getting away from his comfort zone. (even though Steward kind of left the job unfinished and never quite polished Wlad up in every area, maybe thinking he could protect him from ever needing things like infighting through careful matchmaking)

Ride or die, he ought to stick with the known and see what else he can do if he feels compelled. Regaining the belts is a slight boon to his legacy, and the risk of losing again isn't that big a deal at this point, honestly. May as well go for it - but don't go tinkering with the corner. That's a serious, dangerous liability.

 

Not alone, at least not yet, but beating Wlad is. Assuming there is a rematch with Wlad, Fury won't face Wilder until after Wilder has faced Povetkin. If we're assuming Wilder beats Povetkin and Fury beats Wlad again, that does set up a truly titanic clash. Fury has two wins over a top 10 ATG hw at that point, and Wilder would have definitely established himself as the dominant #2 in the division by beating the top contender of the latter half of Wlad's era. If Fury gets through that gauntlet, that would be a bigger accomplishment than anything done by:
Ridd ick Bowe
Ken Norton
Jersey Joe Walcott
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson

All are considered top 25 hws. None were dominant champions, ie, champions facing top contenders over many years and never losing (Patterson came close, but he avoided a lot of top contenders during his reign, and was beat during his prime by the best two hw's he faced while champ). If Fury beats Wlad again and then Wilder after a Wilder win over Povetkin, even if Fury loses to Anthony Joshua in his next fight and retires, it arguably puts him at or near those other top 25 hws.

 

atsch You also thought there was no chance of Fury beating Wlad.

Fury smashes Parker, Wilder, Povetkin and Wlad in a rematch. Joshua is his only real threat, possibly Haye depending on how he looks in January.

 

Wlad will prove you all wrong in the rematch. I do wonder if these forums existed in 78 when Spinks out pointed Ali what all you gibbons would say. Probably exactly the same as you're giving Klit.

 

Effectiveness is more important than romanticised notions of proficiency. I see where you're coming from but if the results come then they come. The future will reveal how right or wrong you are. His unorthodox nature is perverse much like how Djokovic's movement on grass is perverse, but he still schooled Federer in the last 2 Wimbledon finals.

I'll keenly await his next fights.. fact is he is undefeated and did beat a fighter who hadn't lost in 11 years or so.

 

Not the usual Wlad atsch you are beyond deluded.

Fury is leagues above barely B- level guys like Jennings and Pulev

 

Correct, not the usual Wlad - and you're calling me deluded?

I'm not sure what you might need to be convinced of that. Punch stats? Video side-by-side comparison of Wlad's last several defenses next to him standing there like a deer in the headlights yesterday?

That's from the opening bell, too, so you can't say Fury "made him" ineffective and gun shy (at least, not via anything he did in the ring. If you want to say he psyched him out long before the match started, that's one thing...). He was a puss from the start, and clearly not doing his usual routine.

 

Come on, he couldn't figure out how to close the distance as a result of Fury's size, reach and speed. I believe age played a part but it's naïve to think Wlad just suddenly collapsed and Fury, despite his size, reach, speed, had nothing to do with it. We got an ugly fight because both fighters fought/tried to fight technically. Wlad couldn't figure him out and couldn't pull the trigger. Age definitely played its role but so did Fury.

Props to Fury.

 

But also, even if Wlad did figure him out, his inherent willingness to fight is dubious.

 

He's on his way but the competition is surprisiningly thick.

 

I wouldn't say dubious.

Nonexistent.

Until the eighth or ninth, his body language was plain. Didn't want to be fighting.

"Aw, he's circling? And tall? Ugh. Way too hard. I'd rather be sailing/banging Haydn/playing video chess...:roll:"

 

On his way to ATG?

His name is now in the history books, whether any of us like it or not, along with Deontay Wilder's, as heavyweight titlists (and in Fury's case, a step further: lineal/partially unified/Ring heavyweight champ) - which is extremely flattering given his actual skill base. Leave well enough alone. He is never reaching the heights of the all-time great heavyweights. There isn't even competition available for him to do so if he cleaned the division out and reigned for years - just as there wasn't for Wlad.

 

Fair enough. I think Wlad could win. But he'd need to commit to a kind of infighting or aggression that is alien to him. All the while, he'll likely be 40 at that point and its clear that decline is starting to take its toll on him.

He could win, but I'd say there's at least as good a chance that he'll get knocked out. And then, even if he beat Fury, I'm not at all sure that he could beat Wilder or Povetkin to unify the belts, which would have to be his ultimate goal at this point. Its much more likely that he loses again, maybe by ko, rather than unifying the belts. As such, it just doesn't make much sense to try it?

I do think its clear that Tyson Fury is on a totally different level than Spinks. If Wlad had lost a fairly close match like this to, say Glazkov (which is about the type of fighter Leon was), then I'd be all for him trying to come back, fix his mistakes and go out on a victory. But Fury has got some advantages that aren't going away, will only get stronger with confidence. Wlad will just get older.