Leon Spinks, Jim Braddock & Tyson Fury - rank the worst lineal HW champs in order.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Nov 29, 2015.


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  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The uninformed like Lennox Lewis and Manny Steward who have been singing Fury's praise for years?

    Or Perry, the keyboard jockey?
     
    Seamus, Dec 1, 2015
    Seamus, Dec 1, 2015
    #76
  2. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Boxing history is loaded with smaller skilled fighters knocking the stuffing out of bigger unskilled hwts."

    Yes, but those bigger men were not generally the size of modern giants, and with only a couple of exceptions could not fight at all. To lump either Wlad or Fury with the likes of Impelletiere or Santa is carrying your argument too far.

    Louis defeated three men I would consider super-heavyweights--over 6' 4" and 230 pounds--Carnera, Buddy Baer, Simon. Dempsey defeated one--Willard. Ali & Marciano I think none, but there weren't any good ones to fight. Liston, Johansson, Patterson, Schmeling, etc. didn't beat anyone over 230.

    Most of the big men of history were more along the lines of 210 into the 220's range, and less than 6' 4".

    Wilder would be a huge man prior to the 1990's, but while tall, he is pretty light by modern standards.

    That said, you have an historical point, but you're carrying it too far.
     
    edward morbius, Dec 1, 2015
    edward morbius, Dec 1, 2015
    #77
  3. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Boxing skills are boxing skills. Neither fighter exhibited any technical boxing skills in the ring Saturday night. Complete joke.
     
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    #78
  4. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    However skilled you think Corbett, Tunney, Charles, or Patterson were,

    I think it is a bridge too far to see them beating Fury.

    A 200 pound heavyweight never had to be all that skilled to beat a welterweight.
     
    edward morbius, Dec 1, 2015
    edward morbius, Dec 1, 2015
    #79
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Unless he was called Mickey Walker.
     
    janitor, Dec 1, 2015
    janitor, Dec 1, 2015
    #80
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ridiculous.
     
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    #81
  7. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You know nothing of the technical aspects of how to scientifically fight. How many fighters have you ever trained?
     
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    #82
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, you don't. Both men did lots of technically excellent things. Was either performance "technical", or technically pleasing? Of course not, but your statement that "Neither fighter exhibited any technical boxing skills" is preposterous. Indefensible. Drunken.

    Almost every jab Wladimir threw was technically proficient from a mechanical point of view. Some were technically perfect. No serious boxing person would ever argue against these two statements I don't think.

    But lots of his jabs were surprisingly bad.

    Which, of course, is totally irrelevant.
     
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    #83
  9. Bullet

    Bullet Member Full Member

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    Fury would beat Braddock but not sure about Leon.
     
    Bullet, Dec 1, 2015
    Bullet, Dec 1, 2015
    #84
  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Yes but there is a certain horizon at which the exponential disadvantage versus a much larger opponent prohibitively mitigates your own advantage in skill & technique. I think it caps off, if not at the current dividing line between cruiser and heavy, not too far above it, which I think is why that line was put where it was in the first place.

    In other words, a 200lb fighter is going to be more advantaged versus a 147lb fighter than a 253lb fighter will be against the same 200lb fighter, despite there being the same weight difference in fact.

    Sort of like how there's a capping horizon on things like, say, the age deemed culturally appropriate (not just arbitrarily, either, but for a host of very sound reasons based on hard sciences like physiology and neurology, having to do with emotional and physical maturity) for an intimate relationship. A 47 year old and 29 year old - regardless of the genders assigned in either case, really, though for some it may be more or less of a factor depending on the swap- may raise some eyebrows... however, nobody is phoning the police. That same 29 year old dating an eleven year old, however, that's a lynching. Same gap of eighteen years.
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 1, 2015
    IntentionalButt, Dec 1, 2015
    #85
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The idea is if you do not know the sport technically you are in no place to comment. Those two fighters were the most technically incompetent hwt boxers I have ever seen fight for the hwt championship. And I KNOW what I am looking at. Unlike you I have many years being involved in gyms alongside amateur and pro fighters. Ridiculously low level of ability.
     
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    #86
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The comparison between hwt and welterweight is completely erroneous. At lower weight divisions 5-10 pounds is a lot. At hwt weight is a non issue. Chins don't get better just because a fighter is heavier. Skill trumps size.
     
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    Perry, Dec 1, 2015
    #87
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I do know it technically though, and even if I didn't, the above would still be equal to zero argument.

    This is a completely different statement. I'm surprised someone with your history of training technically excellent fighters is incapable of seeing this.
     
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 1, 2015
    #88
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Please to list the fighters you have trained.

    Then I will list those that Manny Steward has trained.
     
    Seamus, Dec 1, 2015
    Seamus, Dec 1, 2015
    #89
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    ...I would probably agree with that rephrased version of the statement. You?
     
    IntentionalButt, Dec 1, 2015
    IntentionalButt, Dec 1, 2015
    #90
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