Is it finally time for a Super Heavyweight division?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Box Deers, Dec 2, 2015.


Page 1 of 3
  1. Box Deers

    Box Deers Ibragimov Still Top Chemp Full Member

    82
    1
    Mar 28, 2015
    Hey, hadn't seen this asked before, but I noticed that in the last 20-30 years heavyweight weights & heights have increased literally exponentially. Compare some classic heavymen champs

    Muhammad Ali - 6'1, 210 ish
    Mike Tyson - 5'10, 210 ish
    Jack Dempsey - 5'9, 180
    Sonny Liston - 6'0, 210

    with the heavymen of today

    Wlad Klitschko - 6'6, 250
    Nikolay Valuev - 7'2, IDK the weight actually
    Tyson Fury - 6'9, 260ish
    Vitaly - 6'8, 250
    Helenius - big guy


    Even guys like Bermane Stiverne & Sam Peter are not taht tall & they outweight most of the old champs. Anthony Joshua is easily 250, the only anomaly being Wilder.

    On average there is a 30-40 lb difference between old & new champs - heck there's a 60lb different alone between Tyson Fury & the CW champs.

    I think it puts an unfair disadvantage on fighters who are inbetween CW & the 250+ 6'7+ size advantage of the current champs. I think guys like Eddie Chambers & even Sultan Ibragimov could of been champs in the last 5 years had these super heavy supermen not existed. They practically had 3 weight classes to overcome (& Wlad still fought scared vs both of them lol).

    What I'm proposing is the creation of the Superheavyweight division, which starts at 240. Immediately it creates 2 more exciting divisions (Super heavy would already have most of the heavyweight champs) & incentivizes those heavies who are on the line to maybe drop some weight in order to stay competitive (guys like Odlanier Solis & maybe Chagaev & Chisora).

    What do you think? I know it might not be popular because there's so many belts anyways - but how do you think an essentially 50lb weight diff between top HW & CW is fair, when there's <4lb differences between divisions from minimum weight up to lightweight - it's crazy!!
     
    Box Deers, Dec 2, 2015
    Box Deers, Dec 2, 2015
    #1
  2. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,266
    7,009
    Nov 22, 2014
    No way. An old and shot Holyfield had no problem closing the distance on Valuev. Both of the Klitstchko brothers have been stopped by much smaller fighters. Tyson Fury got dropped by Cunningham, who would be destroyed by Liston or Tyson. Also, Ali was 6'3" and had no problem beating bigger men. You can't compare the heavyweight division to the smaller weight classes. In the heavweight division heavier isn't better, since Fury came in much lighter and actually performed better. This would also be true for Stiverne, who came in fat against Wilder and Rossy and performed terribly.
     
    Jackomano, Dec 2, 2015
    Jackomano, Dec 2, 2015
    #2
  3. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    7,005
    2,071
    Apr 8, 2013
    Where are you getting some of those heights from. Ali was 6'3, Dempsey 6'1. Size has increased, but not that much! I'd increase the cruiserweight division to 205, I don't think any HW has fought at that weight for a title in 20 years. But otherwise would leave the divisions the way they are. Some of the K's best wins were against smaller fighters. It's just that people have to accept that, baring a Mike Tyson like freak of nature, all the dominant champs from here on out are going to be SHW, 6'4, 230 or more.
     
    andrewa1, Dec 2, 2015
    andrewa1, Dec 2, 2015
    #3
  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,184
    131,354
    Jul 21, 2009
    Dempsey 5'9'' :rofl
     
    Serge, Dec 2, 2015
    Serge, Dec 2, 2015
    #4
  5. plank46

    plank46 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,475
    83
    Aug 23, 2013
    ali was 6'3" and had a huge size advantage over most of the guys he fought.
     
    plank46, Dec 2, 2015
    plank46, Dec 2, 2015
    #5
  6. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    I wouldn't mind it really.

    Heavyweight from 200-240.

    Super heavyweight 240+. Then we can focus on actually good matches instead of watching a bunch of fat guys hug each other and throw 2 punches a round.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 2, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Dec 2, 2015
    #6
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    81,295
    21,767
    Sep 15, 2009
    My post from another thread:
    Our top 10 atm:

    Fury: 247
    Wladimir: 245
    Povetkin: 227
    Wilder: 228
    Pulev: 245
    Stiverne: 254
    Takam: 252
    Glazkov:223
    Jennings: 226
    Cunningham: 204
    Average: 235

    Top ten year end 95

    Bowe: 240
    Lewis: 241
    Tyson: 220
    Moorer: 221
    Holyfield: 213
    Seldon: 234
    Bruno: 247
    Foreman: 256
    Zolkin: 245
    Akinwande: 230
    Average: 235

    Loom at the numbers. The average weight of the top ten is same now as it was 20 years ago. Which top 10 features the heaviest man? 95. Which top 10 features the lightest man? 15. Which top 10 features most fighters over 230? 95.

    People rabbit on about the division getting bigger, where is the proof?

    Yes, since 96 the champion has been Lewis, then Vitali, then Wlad, then Fury. But that is more about style than anything else. Lewis is an ATG so nuff said there. Vitali had to fight Sanders for the championship, I dare say Vitali did not win because he was the bigger man. Cloudy period follows where we have had Byrd as number 1 (former MW) and Wlad as number 1 (beating the former MW). Wlad sealed his championship with a win over Povetkin, that was purely down to size so ill concede a point there. Fury beat Wlad because he was quicker and could stay out of range, so maybe that is size also.

    But let's all bear in mind, the lightest contender out of the 20 men named on this post has very nearly scored a stoppage over the current champion, people need to pipe down about a SHW era.

    Yes Wlad beat Povetkin and Haye by being bigger, would he have beaten a more skilled opponent with a better inside game, we may never know. We do know Fury has been dropped and shaken by a man no bigger than the afore mentioned 2. And is Fury a favourite over Povetkin right now? Not in my book and remember Povetkin is a man who is lighter than the average weight of the 95 crew.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2015
    #7
  8. Faerun

    Faerun Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,858
    4
    Nov 7, 2009
    Lewis would've walked through the 2000s and 2010s without taking a loss. I don't think so.
     
    Faerun, Dec 2, 2015
    Faerun, Dec 2, 2015
    #8
  9. The Smoking Man

    The Smoking Man Boxing Addict banned

    4,736
    4
    Jul 24, 2015
    All the big heavyweights that people complain about eg wlad fury etc coukd weight in under 240 and rehydrate if they wanted too

    If you created a 240 pound supwrheavweught division it would have barely any fighters and easily be the worst in boxing
     
    The Smoking Man, Dec 2, 2015
    The Smoking Man, Dec 2, 2015
    #9
  10. Box Deers

    Box Deers Ibragimov Still Top Chemp Full Member

    82
    1
    Mar 28, 2015
    Really appreciate all your comments here - if we get enough I might compile them & maybe submit them to a sanctioning body or one of the organizations. They are always open to stuff that will make the sport better I sm sure of it
     
    Box Deers, Dec 3, 2015
    Box Deers, Dec 3, 2015
    #10
  11. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,706
    1,690
    Jul 31, 2013
    We need more weight classes :smoke

    105, 107, 109
    This content is protected

    112, 115, 118
    This content is protected

    122, 126, 130
    This content is protected

    135, 140, 145, 150, 155, 160
    This content is protected

    167, 175, 185, 200, 220, 245
    This content is protected
     
    eltirado, Dec 3, 2015
    eltirado, Dec 3, 2015
    #11
  12. GloriaAblaze

    GloriaAblaze Active Member Full Member

    936
    0
    Nov 28, 2015
    2lb skip, are you ****ing kidding me. That's like a can of freaking beans.
     
    GloriaAblaze, Dec 3, 2015
    GloriaAblaze, Dec 3, 2015
    #12
  13. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

    34,221
    5,875
    Apr 30, 2006
    Not with his consistency. He'd have lost a fight or two he shouldn't have, just like his actual career.
     
    Rock0052, Dec 3, 2015
    Rock0052, Dec 3, 2015
    #13
  14. FilipMNE

    FilipMNE Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,394
    11
    Jul 3, 2011
    100 year old Holyfield beat Valuev, skills are more important, does size help yes but you need to have skills to fallow...
     
    FilipMNE, Dec 4, 2015
    FilipMNE, Dec 4, 2015
    #14
  15. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

    49,517
    15,934
    Jul 19, 2004
    Where's the option for "No, there are already too many divisions, but I'm not at all angry!"?

    :smoke
     
    Rumsfeld, Dec 4, 2015
    Rumsfeld, Dec 4, 2015
    #15
Page 1 of 3