LaMotta vs Zale (prime vs prime)

Lamotta. Zale is so overrated its crazy. Especially his toughness. People think he was called the man of steel because he was tough. Not true. Its because he was from a steel town. Zale wanted nothing to do with lamotta for good reason. All of lamottas strengths nullified all of zales.

 

LaMotta.

I don't think Zale is a top 15 MW h2h.

 

I agree regarding lamotta over zale.lloyd marshall beats them both though.

 

Excerpt from 'Tony Zale. The Man of Steel':
"From July of 1935 through mid-1937, Tony worked in the steel mills and requested every tough labor job the mills had to offer. When he came back to the ring in the summer of 1937, a Chicago sportswriter was surprised as his ashen color and sculpted body. He said that Tony looked like a new piece of steel off the line at the "Gary Steel Works," and the symbolism stuck. It was then, thanks to this reporter, that the became known in boxing circles as The Man of Steel from Gary, Indiana."

I won't argue that Zale would have defeated LaMotta, especially after he came out of the service. It would have been one of those fights that would have been fun to watch though. I envision the two going to war.

I don't for a moment believe he ever feared Jake. I think the fact that he never fought LaMotta had more to do with who the powers to be wanted him to fight at the time.

As for Zale's toughness, I don't really understand why that would be questioned. It seems to me as though he was as tough as they came during his era.

 

A great post, wish we had more like this on Eastside. I'd like to know Burt's thoughts on this one.

 

I don't think anyone of their time thought Tony was afraid to fight Jake, by the time a bout would have taken place he would have been past his best so prime to prime would never have happened. Jake could adapt to just about any style and size while Tony hit harder, neither liked to move backwards, both were fighters no less.

 

His toughness is overrated today. Period. Especially when comparing it to LaMotta's which the OP did. He was dropped, hurt, and beaten up numerous times throughout his career. Mentally he was tough because he often had to overcome getting dropped, hurt, and/or outboxed. Sometimes he didnt overcome that though. Had he had not had his series with the also incredibly overrated Graziano and he had not been so protected after the war my suspicion is his supposed toughness wouldnt be bandied about like it is today. He certainly wasnt even in the same stratosphere of toughness as LaMotta. What Zale was was a banger primarily with decent boxing skills and good stamina. He wasnt a volume guy and he wasnt a cutie. He relied on hurting his opposition and coming on strong late to seal the deal. LaMotta was a volume guy and Zale wasnt going to hurt him. LaMotta also relied on coming on strong as the rounds went on. Zale was a body puncher and LaMotta didnt give up his body. LaMotta was also a terrific body puncher and Zale fought tall. I see LaMotta's combination of durability, style, stamina, and volume punching as poison all day every day for Zale. Sam Piam and Art Winch knew it and thats why they avoided him like the plague. Its always irked me that Zale tried to use his column in Boxing Illustrated years later to rewrite history and criticize guys like Robinson and LaMotta and pretend he would have beaten them. Maybe he thought that, but the guys who knew better certainly didnt. Zale was certainly happy to go along with facing lesser opposition for literally years.

 

Zale to outbox The Myth to a UD

Neither is The Myth

 

LaMotta W15. Underrated boxing skills.

 

"He was dropped, hurt, and beaten up numerous times throughout his career. Mentally he was tough because he often had to overcome getting dropped, hurt, and/or outboxed. Sometimes he didnt overcome that though."

Maybe our view of toughness differs. Getting dropped, hurt, and beaten up isn't something that I think of in terms of toughness. It's the willingness to get back up and attempt to overcome that which I associate with toughness. In that regard, I feel as though he had as much heart as any fighter at that time.

It's hard for me to envision him beating Robinson, but he said Robinson told him that he was offered the chance to fight him and turned it down because he felt Zale hit too hard to the body. Truth? Well, if Tony told his nephew that Robinson said that to him I believe it, Tony doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to make something like that up and Robinson had such a large ego that I have a hard time imagining him telling Zale something like that just to make him feel good. But, one would certainly expect Robinson to box rings around him.

 

I reckon he is just about.

 

T, I defer to Clay Moyle's thoughts on Tony Zale...But growing up when Zale was still good, Tony was regarded as the hardest punching body puncher in decades by boxing scribes and boxing trainers of his time.
Aside from Jake LaMotta, Ray Robinson NEVER fought any fighter MW or WW who hit as hard as the 160 pound Tony Zale did and was as tough as "the man of steel". PERIOD.
One other thing. In 1946 Ray Robinson {at his peak] fought a neighbor of mine Artie Levine who was a heavy punching but second tier MW,
in Cleveland. In a middle round Artie Levine unloaded a left hook on Robinson depositing Ray on his back badly hurt. The referee
foolishly walked Artie Levine to a neutral corner , and then walked back to where Robinson lay on his back and then started to count over Robinson. It was estimated that 18 seconds elapsed with Robinson on the canvas, which allowed Robby to recover and hold on to the end of the round. In previous rounds Robinson was hurt several other times by Artie Levine who was a second rater compared to Tony Zale in power and overall class. My point T, is if Artie Levine almost
[and maybe DID] ko Ray Robinson that night, why couldn't Zale who was a superior puncher and fighter than Artie Levine, have not improved on what Artie Levine did in 1947.?
P.S. Ray Robinson was by far the greatest fighter I ever saw ringside,
no doubt, but Tony Zale pre WW2 was indeed "a man of steel ".cheers

 

You clearly think Zale ducked some good fighters, getting beat, hurt, dropped and going back at it is only seen in those truely tough though. I missed his column in Boxing Illustrated, probably started reading it around 1970 so it must have been in the 60's.

 

Some critics of Tony Zale should realize that Tony Zale ,at the height of his powers lost FOUR years in the Navy and came back at the
age of 33 and was never the fighter of his prime, thus losing once to Rocky Graziano and in his last bout against Marcel Cerdan at the ripe old age of 35.
Ray Robinson retired for 3 years and came back in 1955 and took a bad beating losing a bout against a tough journeyman MW named Ralph Tiger Jones, whom I saw many times...