The term super heavyweight with skills has no official guideline. Here's mine

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Dec 4, 2015.


  1. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Everytime he had to 'fight' he lost.

    Great potential and talent , but its useless if you don't the mentality to deliver it. He was never a great fighter in his life. Great only when things were going his way.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You don't need to be technically complete to be a great fighter.

    You only need to be able to win.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sometimes technically astute fighters have issues adapting, in fact. They can be the least flexible fighters.
     
  4. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Example?
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ****, there are millions. Jimmy Wilde, Bob Fitzsimmons, Roy Jones, Jak Berg, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali...
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    As mentioned previously, Ali would seem to be the obvious example, but we could go further.

    I don’t think that many of the great swarmers of history were particularly complete fighters.

    Any great fighter that lacks a key dimension to their game could be said to be incomplete.
     
  7. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Ali beat greats to make him great. He clearly had an x factor in his performance that made him great.
    Same with Marciano and Roy Jones.
     
  8. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    What does Wlad have that Ali didn't?

    I can name multiple attributes and achievements Ali had that Wlad doesn't
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Loads of great fighters didn't "beat a great to make them great" though. This is old territory, much covered.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  11. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Everybody in the top 10 has.

    Ali has faced 15 boxers ranked within he Ring Top 50 HW list.

    Even Rid**** Bowe has 3.

    Wlad has faced Zero and lost to Fury who could potentially be the best guy he ever fought , on top of 3 other loses to guys no where near the top 50.
     
  12. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Top ten at heavyweight??

    Dempsey hasn't.

    Johnson hasn't (unless you are counting 154lb Sam).

    Liston hasn't (unless you have Patterson as a great, I don't).

    Wlad's competition isn't great, but it's not that much worse, if at all than someone like Manuel Ortiz, who was unquestionably a great bantamweight. But i'll bet that Wlad has more #1 contenders than Ortiz.

    It's impossible to take you seriously where Wlad is concerned. You know that.
     
  14. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Liston has 5 wins against guys ranked in the top 50.
    Johnson has Jeffries.
    Dempsey isn't a top 10 of all time in most people's books.

    When your comp is terrible like Wlads was , you expect them , if they were great, to blitz thru them a la Roy Jones and Mike Tyson style.
    But that wasn't the case. He made laborious , tedious work , often using fouls to beat guys he held every physical advantage over.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Jimmy Wilde was much more of an athletic ko artist than a technical boxer.

    Bit like what Hamed tried his hardest to be. So much raw speed and power he never had to learn fundamentals to compete at the highest level nor to dominate at the highest level.

    Canto was the most technical fighter in the FLW division but would I expect him to avoid the power of Wilde over 15 rounds, I honestly don't know. But Perez would get stopped by Wilde I believe, to willing to exchange and get in close.