Greatest HW accomplishment in history

Vitali isn't coming back. He knows too well he'd have no chance against Tyson. Vitali relied on his size even more than Wlad did, and faced zero opponents as tall or taller than him, unlike his more mobile and quick brother.

Beside, he's too busy in taking part in masonic meetings.

 

That's a lot of "ifs". Vitali wouldn't even make it out of training camp.

 

If Fury defeats Deontay Wilder, that makes him instantly the G.O.A.T

Byrd made a prime Vitali quit, plus he is older & inactive so it will not be mind challenging as the idea of beating the seemingly invincible undefeated KO artist Deontay Wilder

Wlad is so beatable, he already did it...a rematch does so little, but its good for Fury bank account :thumbsup

 

Really? Please name all the quality opponents taller than Vitali? There wasn't any, that's a ridiculous comment, he's not scared to fight and would certainly have a great chance against Fury, but the part about him not coming back was spot on. He's too old and prone to injury.

 

It would be a great achievement, but i think Vitali may be a bit busy in Ukrainian politics.

Also, it won't top Ali v Foreman, for me. You have to remember that Foreman was seen as an unstoppable beast back then, a lot like Tyson and Liston in their primes. I think he was 40-0 with 37 KOs when he fought Ali.

 

Ali finishing off his comeback by ko'ing Foreman and regaining the title. A lot of people thought that Foreman was literally going to kill him

 

I realize this isn't the Classic forum, but Jack Johnson beating Tommy Burns to become the first black HW champ was an amazing accomplishment.

Next to Primo Carnero becoming the first (and only) undisputed HW champ, of course.

 

I like you Andrew, we've had some good debates in the past. And this thread has made me smile.

It's good and entertaining. But I'm going to type something that I must have typed a hundred times:

Statistics don't allow for circumstances.

The Fury-Wlad fight was truly awful. It was a close, non eventful fight that Fury deserved to win on aggression and landing the cleaner punches. The most impressive thing about the victory, was the mental victory that Fury inflicted upon Wlad. He did a complete psyche job on him.

Personally, I don't think any of your scenarios would surpass Ali's win over Foreman in Zaire.

Again, to me, statistics alone don't cut it.

If Vitali came back and beat Fury it would be a joke to be honest.

Regarding Ali's age, Ali wasn't your average 32 year old fighter. He was much older physically.

What you've got to understand about 'The Jungle' is that Ali knew that the only possible way he could beat George, was to try and psyche him out and make him burn up all of his youthful energy. And to do that, he actually had to put himself in extreme danger. The 'rope a dope' was planned early. Ali knew he couldn't dance for 15 rounds and try and out manoeuvre George in the centre of the ring. He knew full well that if he'd have employed those tactics, he'd have burnt himself out at the half way stage and George would have taken him out. So Ali knew that the only way he could win, was to let a 26 year old monster wail away at him in the hope he'd gas.

Now every fighter knows the dangers of their profession. But how many guys would purposely lay on the ropes and let Foreman swing away at them? A 67 version of Ali would have been up on his toes, circling, feinting, jumping in and out of range. It would have been a totally different fight. But in 74, Ali made the bravest/stupidest decision I've ever seen anyone make. He was over the hill, Foreman was a wrecking machine, and yet he put his life on the line to out wit him. You can say that the ropes had been loosened, but Ali took some hellacious body shots, whilst trying to psyche George out by calling him a 'sissy' etc. It was reported that Ali urinated blood after the fight.

Who else in Ali's position would have signed for the fight?

Who else would have laid there and mocked George in the same manner?

Nobody gave Ali a chance, and people were genuinely concerned for his safety. People didn't just believe that he was going to lose, they believed he was going to get destroyed and seriously hurt.

I think Ali was crazy to sign for the fight. And to knock him out after he'd beaten him both mentally and physically, again after he'd himself taking a pounding to achieve it? I just don't think it gets any better than that.

All things considered, it has to be the greatest HW win of all time.

When rating a win, it's not about just focusing on a guys resume, (although that of course is important) it's about an*lysing all of the circumstances involved, as above.

If your scenarios played out, they would be great achievements. And statistically, you could try and make an argument that it was 'The Greatest win' But again, the statistics alone don't cut it. Your scenarios would never replicate the danger that Ali faced.

Wlad was undefeated in 11 years, and I have to give credit where credit's due. He's a great fighter who's had great longevity. But do I think Tyson Fury holds one of the greatest ever wins in the division? No I don't.

I guarantee you that if Vitali came back and beat Fury, it wouldn't be universally recognised as the greatest HW win of all time. What it would do is make the division look bad, as well as greatly damaging Wlad's all time ranking and reputation.

Great debate.


:good

 

If Vitali came back with no warm up whatsoever and battered Fury to a tko win, that would be mighty impressive

 

I'm not arguing that Foreman's win over Moorer's would be better, but again, you have to take into account more than a guys resume.

Wlad was the champ for a very long time. He had great longevity and he has a very good resume.

Of course Tyson Fury he now beaten him. But does that honestly meh that Tyson himself now has a great resume?

 

A few points:

Ali was nowhere near his prime at 32.

I like Potvetkin a lot. But would beating Wilder be a great achievement, other than obviously obtaining the WBC belt? Wilder's hardly done anything. He won the belt off Stiverne (who isn't a great fighter) who won it himself against Arreola when it was vacant. And since Wilder's had the belt, he's struggled against two average guys. (no disrespect intended)

 

:good

 

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He didn't just run through club fighters and Spinks wasn't 'just a LHW'

 

It was accomplished the other week when The Furious One™ schooled Vlad