Ali-Liston II revisited

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BillB, Dec 7, 2015.


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  1. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali was incensed because Liston laid down without being hit.
    He can be seen mouthing to his corner "did I hit him?"
    At the end of the fight they shoved a mic in Ali's face and he had no idea if he had "hit" Liston with a left or a right. "I'll have to see the tapes".

    I think everyone was surprised because Liston went down before he was supposed to. The KO was scheduled to happen a few rounds later. Liston just wanted to get it over with, early.
     
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    #16
  2. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Corner men. Mob operatives. Many possibilities.
    Ali might even come clean on his death bed.
     
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    #17
  3. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    Maine's boxing rules don't provide for disqualification under those circumstances. According to Maine rules the referee may stop the count and resume when the boxer returns to his corner. The Ref could deduct a point,
     
    Nighttrain, Dec 7, 2015
    Nighttrain, Dec 7, 2015
    #18
  4. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    Paul Gallender in his book THE STORY BEHIND ALI LISTON FIGHTS weaves a pretty specific and elaborate story of the alleged fix.
     
    Nighttrain, Dec 7, 2015
    Nighttrain, Dec 7, 2015
    #19
  5. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Flagrant disregard of the referee's instructions is a standard reason for disqualification. The instructions disregarded can apply to anything.
     
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    #20
  6. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I believe he says that the N.O.I. was holding Liston's wife and son hostage during the fight.
     
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    BillB, Dec 7, 2015
    #21
  7. LXEX55

    LXEX55 Active Member Full Member

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    If Liston was going to take a dive, he would not have done it in the first round.
     
    LXEX55, Dec 8, 2015
    LXEX55, Dec 8, 2015
    #22
  8. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How do we know this?
     
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    #23
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    But that guy talks to ghosts, isn't he the guy who believes he has contact with Sonnys ghost? I'm unsure what evidence came from voices in his head.
     
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    #24
  10. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He claims he's in contact with a woman psychic who talks to Liston.
    The book supposedly wasn't based on this. It was based on interviews with people who knew Liston at the time of the Ali fights.

    I'll agree with you that the ghost **** undermines his credibility.
     
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    #25
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Sonny had a rematch clause. He had to go through with a fight he might not have wanted. He got beat up last time.

    Back then a champ had to be beaten twice. Charles, Walcott, Patterson, Ingo, Liston..

    Not just Liston but Patterson and Walcott might not have been so psychologically ready to go straight back in with a guy who gave them a punishing seeing to without first winning a confidence building warm up.

    Some of Listons comeback fights were impressive enough to conclude that with a real comeback run he was worthy of better than he produced in Maine. Maybe his heart really was not in a rematch with Ali?
     
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    #26
  12. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Did you actually think Ali knocked him down?
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    #27
  13. blundell

    blundell Active Member Full Member

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    It's a shame we didn't see Ali vs Foreman fight again.
     
    blundell, Dec 8, 2015
    blundell, Dec 8, 2015
    #28
  14. Warwick Hunt

    Warwick Hunt Active Member Full Member

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    You can see by Ali's immediate reaction that he certainly wasn't in on any perceived fix. He stands over Liston gesturing for him to get up yelling "get up ya bum". That's not the reaction of a man who's in on a fix or expected his opponent to go down from the blow he just landed.
     
    Warwick Hunt, Dec 8, 2015
    Warwick Hunt, Dec 8, 2015
    #29
  15. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You could be right.
    There are a number of possibilities. Liston being disgusted with the whole thing is certainly one of them.
     
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    #30
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