>>> Get your facts straight, Wlad only has *3* title defenses...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Cisco Route, Dec 3, 2015.


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  1. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    NO, you're not.

    It didn't work out that way for Sonny Liston when he was chasing Floyd Patterson. Liston was the #1 HW but Patterson was The Champion. Had Patterson never fought Liston we wouldn't be talking about Liston right now - but we WOULD be talking about Patterson since he was the LINEAL Champion.

    Lineal >>> #1
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #121
  2. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    Do you happen to notice how far back you keep going to point to a time when the "lineal" title actually mattered? Any title that you don't have to defend... that you aren't forced to face top competition, and everyone knows you aren't really the best in the world... simply doesn't mean anything. Even actual titles don't mean anything if the best guy in the division doesn't hold it.

    A title is only worth as much as the person who carries it. Whether it's an actual title, or an imaginary one.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Dec 8, 2015
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Dec 8, 2015
    #122
  3. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    I don't think that he wants to understand.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Dec 8, 2015
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Dec 8, 2015
    #123
  4. Clarkson

    Clarkson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The first 5 are worthless paper defences. 18 is the number. :bbb
     
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    #124
  5. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    LOL.

    You idiots give WAY to much credit to the sanctioning organizations. Here is a tip for you, the only title that mattered when Floyd Patterson was champion is the only title that mattered when Jack Johnson was champion is the ONLY title that matters NOW. The trinkets handed out by the Ring/WBC/WBA/IBF/IBO/WBO/whomever are MEANINGLESS. They account for less than nothing.

    Larry Holmes dropped the WBC HW title back in '83 and picked up the IBF title in its place. Did the WBC title all of a sudden become worthless and did the IBF title all of a sudden become valuable because the HW champion of the world dropped the former and picked up the latter? Was Larry Holmes any less of a champion because he dropped the WBC title, a title from an organization started in 1963, for the fledgling IBF title? NO. The truth is both the WBC and IBF titles were and are MEANINGLESS. The ONLY title of any significance that Holmes held was the LINEAL title. The same is true today. The sanctioning mobs and their trinkets are MEANINGLESS. They have NO validity whatsoever...
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #125
  6. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    Of those 18, the first 15 are also worthless paper defenses. *3* is the number...
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #126
  7. Clarkson

    Clarkson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Now lineal titles are worth more than the ABCs but the problem with lineal titles with nobody actually forcing the champion to fight anyone is that Shannon Briggs became lineal champ in 1997 when he wasn't the best heavyweight, there would have been nothing to stop him fighting nobodies for the rest of his career. Lineal championships are great in theory but unfortunately because of the ABCs aren't the same as they used to be.
     
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    #127
  8. Clarkson

    Clarkson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I disagree, Wlad was #1 after Byrd2 and defended this position 18 times.
     
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    #128
  9. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    Jack Johnson never held the WBA title when he was the HW champion. Want to know why? Because there was no WBA back then.

    So, since Jack Johnson never held the WBA HW title, does that make him any less of the HW Champion of the World?
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #129
  10. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    Sure thing, but beating Byrd did NOT make Wlad the champion @ HW...
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #130
  11. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    hes only had 3 decent ones, if that's what you mean.

    theres too many bum, subnational defences.
     
    HerolGee, Dec 8, 2015
    HerolGee, Dec 8, 2015
    #131
  12. Clarkson

    Clarkson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Starting a new lineage is much harder these days than in the days of 1 title where being lineal was the only way to be world champion so it's unfair to compare modern boxers to those of the old days. In the days of one title no way would it take 10 years for the consensus #1 and #2 to fight. I agree that Wlad only became lineal after Povetkin but Wlad was the man to beat since Byrd 2 and this day and age where the ABCs keep the top men apart, that's good enough.
     
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    Clarkson, Dec 8, 2015
    #132
  13. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    How is that any different from what the sanctioning mobs are doing? Bumlovkin has been defending his "titles" against TOMATO CANs on HBO for how long now? Remember when Roy Jones jr literally had 5 title belts when he was the top dog @ 175. The merry go round of TOMATO CANs he feasted on went on for YEARS. TOMATO CAN after TOMATO CAN and they were ALL setup as "mandatories" by the sanctioning mobs. So, this whole excuse about "the problem with lineal titles with nobody actually forcing the champion to fight anyone" is a steaming pile of bullshit. When was the last time the WBC forced Mayweather to fight a mandatory? GTFOOH...
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #133
  14. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    No. Wlad only has 3 title defenses, period. I don't count paper title defenses as actual world title defenses...
     
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    Cisco Route, Dec 8, 2015
    #134
  15. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    I don't either, but they will go down on his record as defences.


    his resume is terrible apart from povetkin, haye and chaggy, they are the only 3 defences which are world level.
    some additional perspective, his 3 emphatic losses were to fringers who would barely register a title shot in other eras, never mind win a title.

    I agree its appalling that team K has had a hand in organising so many fake mandatories, but it was easy money for them to make out of the emerging and increasingly lucrative middle class market in eastern Europe thats been coming up ever since the wall went down.
     
    HerolGee, Dec 8, 2015
    HerolGee, Dec 8, 2015
    #135
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