Ali-Liston II revisited

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BillB, Dec 7, 2015.


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  1. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree that Ali was surprised that Liston went down when he did. So was Walcott.
    It could still have been a fix and Liston was supposed to go down in a later round.
    I think that's what happened.
     
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    #31
  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    You forgot to mention that Ali also said "Nobody's gonna believe this" and "I didn't hit him." So Ali certainly did not expect Liston to go down, any way you put it.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    #32
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Fighters need to be seasoned in order to maintain a peak. Sonny had built up into a great fighting peak by the start of 1961. Yet in 1962 he fights one round. 1963 just one round. 1964 he's not where he was in 1960. Practically nobody had hit Liston back since the Machen fight. So the Ali fight was a big shock for Sonny.

    He needed to rebuild. Go into camp a couple of times and regain earlier form before fighting at World level. He knew he needed that to do himself justice. A rematch with Machen perhaps? Anything.

    After his exile Sonny was busy again and by the Clark fight he guy was world class again. That's what he needed to be in 1965.
     
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    #33
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I will strongly disagree that Liston was back in his peak in 1965, if that's what you're insinuating.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    #34
  5. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't think he's saying that.
    I understand him to say that Liston was rusty through lack of action in 1965.
     
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    #35
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes that's what I'm saying. An active fighter is a better fighter. Boxing is all about levels. you can drop a level through inactivity or having your own way too much. Liston had both. you need to rebuild. The Rematch clause prevents this.

    The hernia hold up, the infrequent low resistance fights had not prepared Sonny for Ali. Floyd Patterson was a better fighter than Sonny made him look but more rounds would have been of greater value to Sonny than six minutes in two years.
     
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    choklab, Dec 8, 2015
    #36
  7. boxfan22

    boxfan22 Active Member Full Member

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    This. Ali could beat liston every day of the week just like he could beat foreman every day of the week.
     
    boxfan22, Dec 8, 2015
    boxfan22, Dec 8, 2015
    #37
  8. boxfan22

    boxfan22 Active Member Full Member

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    This tells you former boxers can't referee.
     
    boxfan22, Dec 8, 2015
    boxfan22, Dec 8, 2015
    #38
  9. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He'd still have lost and convincingly so.

    Since their first fight the previous year,Liston was another year older while Ali was still improving.
     
    Stevie G, Dec 8, 2015
    Stevie G, Dec 8, 2015
    #39
  10. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What better round to take a dive in? Why fart about for 6 or 7 rounds when you already know the outcome yourself?
     
    fists of fury, Dec 8, 2015
    fists of fury, Dec 8, 2015
    #40
  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    When Ali had a hernia?
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    #41
  12. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree Ali wasn't in on the fix.he also knew he hadn't ko'd liston
     
    turpinr, Dec 8, 2015
    turpinr, Dec 8, 2015
    #42
  13. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree that Ali knew he hadn't KOd Liston.

    I think Ali might have been in on it to the extent he knew that Liston would take a dive in a certain round.
    Ali would only have had to fight his regular fight. He wouldn't have had to anything special.

    I think the shock came when Liston went down earlier than planned.

    If the N.O.I. was behind it, Ali would probably have known it was coming.
     
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    BillB, Dec 8, 2015
    #43
  14. LXEX55

    LXEX55 Active Member Full Member

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    Common sense tells us so.
     
    LXEX55, Dec 8, 2015
    LXEX55, Dec 8, 2015
    #44
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    How so? :lol: Wouldn't it make sense, to get it over with? :huh
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 8, 2015
    #45
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