Finally did research on Roy Jones. He actually did avoid most of the top MW-SMW.

bailey,

Among others.

Not only was Roy considered the best SMW in the world, he was also considered the best Pound for Pound fighter in the world.

Tell me who you think was 'The Man' at SMW.

By many. Roy beat better fighters and he did it with absolute ease.

How so?

Dariusz had a lot more fights at LHW, but without being disrespectful to anyone, the majority of his WBO defences were against C class opposition. It was quality over quantity in Roy's favour. They shared 5 common opponents: Hill, Griffin, Gonzalez, Hall and Harmon. Apart from Hill, Roy beat them all first, and again, without absolute ease. Whereas Dariusz had trouble with Hall and he lost to Gonzalez. Then throw in wins over Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding, Clinton Woods and Antonio Tarver, and in my opinion, there's no contest. I believe that Roy's LHW resume alone is stronger than Dariusz's entire resume.

Why would Roy have called him out? He retired after losing his title to Hill as soon as Roy entered the division.

Behave.

How could Tiozzo's win over Dariusz be rated higher than Roy's best wins at the weight?

Okay. And what did you think about Hill's easy win in their rematch?

It may say that on paper, but we know how it went down.

I haven't forgotten that. My point was to illustrate that all the guys you've mentioned were all on a similar level.

Think about what you're saying.

Dariusz and Roy beat faded versions of Hill, who'd recently beaten Maske. Then two years later, Hill beat Tiozzo easily. Then five years later, he beat Dariusz which you're claiming as a very good-great win.

So how was Tarver levels below?

I never said Tarver was a level above. I said he was on their level. It's you who's saying he was a level below everyone. Which again, is absolutely ridiculous.

1. He wasn't slow.

2. So what if he lost to Harding? Harding was decent and he beat him in a rematch.

A faded Nunn couldn't beat Roch.

Roch couldn't beat Seillier.

Maske couldn't beat a faded Hill.

A faded Hill easily beat Tiozzo.

Do you get it?

How could Tarver be levels below Maske, Nunn and Tiozzo etc? It's absolutely laughable.

Roy was exhausted in their first fight and it was close. And although Roy wasn't the same fighter he'd once been, he was in much better condition for the rematch, both mentally and physically. He'd had longer to prepare and he'd brought Mackie back on board. You can see this in the documentary titled - 'Heart of a Champion' You know that I've always given Tarver credit for that win.

It seems that you're more than happy to focus on Tarver's losses, whilst both ignoring his victories, as well as the losses that the fighters who you've listed endured.

Now all you have to do, is admit that you exaggerated. I do it quite often myself. But I'm big enough to retract my statements.

Again, Tiozzo couldn't survive a round against a faded Hill, yet he was levels above Tarver?

As above.

Okay, one more time:

Tarver was levels BELOW a faded Nunn who couldn't beat Roch?

Levels below Roch who couldn't beat Seillier?

Levels below Maske who couldn't beat Hill?


Stop the madness.

I know what I wrote and I'm standing by it.

Before he fought Ward and went off the rails, Dawson was a very good fighter.

He'd beaten Harding, Adamek, Tarver, Johnson and Hopkins. So there's no way he was levels below Tiozzo, Roch and Maske etc.


:good

 

:blood

Who do you think you're talking to here? Some of us were actually following the sport back then.

The above post is all inaccurate nonsense - parts of which you just made up - and is mostly the EXACT same material which you've already been repeatedly corrected on by general zod. Sometimes word for word.

Yet you continue to parrot the same drivel - your own skewed personal version of reality that fits into a fantasy world which revolves around an angelic Roid Jones – until, amongst others, an extremely patient general zod returns to school and correct you again. The same debates over and over. For years. How can someone remain so clueless? Complete waste of time.:dead

Along with mindlessly agreeing with any fanboy post about Jones - regardless of its actual content or how wrong it may be - and replying to literally any post which is even mildly critical of Jones to leap to his defense, 24-7-365 :dead

Revolving around this apparent childlike worship of Roid Jones jr, such behavior strongly suggest conditions along the lines of;

• OCD.
• Learning disabilities.
• Delusional disorder.

imo, Loudon basically is....unwell, and it's clear that no amount of esb schooling can help him.

He once posted that he sits with his head in his hands after reading some of these debates. That's not good. Constant reassurance and encouragement from the clueless Mind Reader doesn't help his conditions either.

general zod strangely hasn't pointed this out this behavior and almost seems bot-like in his own posts. Don't get me wrong, I've noticed general zod has deliberately told a few porkie pies himself in the past to support whatever his current argument was, sometimes completely contradicting what he's said in other debates, but that's just intellectual dishonesty and poor form on his part.

 

Let's remind ourselves of the big picture here;

History will judge Jones harshly – and rightly so.

His career had some high points - such as comfortably taking James Toney's soul, defeating Montell Griffin inside a round after previously disgracing himself, and a number of spectactacle performances against opponents ranging from B to D level.

However, given his talent and his claims of being the best boxer on the planet for so long, his career was a huge, tedious disappointment which left more questions than answers - not to mention controversy.

Cherrypicking Ducker

Jones was without a doubt the biggest cherrypicking ducker of his generation. He collected a bunch of abc trinkets yet inexplicably never boxed a Lineal champion or power puncher, and was never 'the man', in any weight division he campaigned in. Whether avoiding like the plague (McClellan), low-balling (Nunn, Liles), pricing himself out (Michalczewski, Hopkins II), or flat out rejecting big fight offers (Jackson, Benn, Collins, Calzaghe, Rocchigiani, Jirov, & Michalczewski again) Jones blatantly avoided a series of rivals throughout his whole prime – the most notable being his absolute refusal to challenge long-reigning light-heavyweight king Dariusz Michalczewski.

Let's be honest - realistically, with his cushy soft HBO contracts, Jones could've made any of the big fights happen which didn't materialize - yet chose not to. The recurring pattern of cherrypicking and “failed” negotiations throughout Jones' prime proved beyond any doubt what his true intentions were after he secured that contract; the path of least resistance (confirmed by then-President of HBO Sports Seth Abraham), and anyone who argues otherwise is just deluding themselves.

Faux Champion

Backed by the dishonest comic The Ring and HBO, Jones was a completely spurious “undisputed champion” at 175lbs who repeatedly hid behind his lame “mandatory challengers” excuse to justify boxing a series of public service employees whilst ducking the real champion for over 5 years. It was an embarrassing transparent lie which a damn child could see through. Jones was never anything more than a trinket holder @175 who benefited massively from the corruption of the governing bodies. His meaningless abc straps had no credibility whatsoever. FACT.

Couldn't draw flies

As manager and promoter, the Jones camp were atrocious - despite HBO's backing. His PPVs bombed spectactaclly. Completely unreliable when it came to promotion, and useless unreasonable negotiators. 90/10 purse splits? LOL. His antics lead to the WBC almost being put out of business. Obviously this is all tied to his ducking.

Reluctant Roy's tedious diva act made him an ATG bore, resulting in the Roycott. He needed Arum or King to turn him into a big draw – though that would've meant taking the dangerous fights and accepting reasonable purse splits.

It gets worse...

PED Cheat

This all but destroyed his credibility. Caught abusing steroids – criminally brushed under the carpet by the boxing authorities in 2000 until a former opponent later exposed the scandal – which puts puts an asterix next to Jones' whole career. Remember, the 1988 U.S. Olympic team were notorious steroid cheats – it isn't too far fetched to suggest Jones was already using steroids back then.

Glass Jaw

Most telling of all, Jones undeniably harboured a weak chin, which could have been permanently shattered by any of the big punchers he ducked - mostly likely McClellan in 93-94. In hindsight it's obvious why he avoided his most dangerous rivals .

Pound-for-pound nonsense

Jones was never consistently rated the “P4P #1”. That's just a myth which gets mindlessly parroted around by his tiny fanclub and always used as an excuse for his behavior.

Fighter Of The Decade???

Roid was never the 90s “Fighter Of The Decade“ either. An American writers accolade which - whilst wrong even at the time - looks ridiculous in hindsight.

p4p king Pernell Whitaker was obviously the fighter of the 90s :deal Superior boxer, greater achievements, better opposition than Reluctant Roid.

Overall, Whitaker is also rated higher than Jones on all independent atg/p4p ratings. This is obvious stuff.

Douchebag

It's good that these forums have further exposed Jones for what he really was. Outside of boxing he's a weirdo who gets off on dog & c*ck fighting, and a corny rapper who's still embarrassing himself in that regard today. Jones' latest new low; nude “selfies” and “s*xts” being posted online by his trans*xual mistress - who also exposed Roid's passion for watersports. (He enjoys being urinated on.)

When Jones finally did get some humility knocked into him via his glass jaw being shattered, his attitude bizarrely took a complete U-turn, with Jones suddenly willing to be KTFO for chump change against allcomers, on any continent - thus becoming a huge laughing stock. Brutal.

The controversy and questions will completely overshadow Jones' reputation forever. Ultimately, the “legacy” Jones left, if you can call it that, was everything that's wrong with professional boxing.

 

Let us also reminds ourselves of the depths that Jones and the governing bodies would sink to during Roid Jones' heyday;

Jones was truly ground-breaking when it came to ducking opponents. In 1997 - in conjunction with the wbc - he began with the most elaborate route of all-time to duck his top ranked title challengers;

After the farcical Jones-Nunn negotiations - which were essentially Roid's usual attempts to rip off his #1 challenger that had backfired so embarrassingly - he took a revolutionary, highly innovative 3-step strategic maneuver to pull off the most outrageous and scandalous duck of his career;

(Greedy p.o.s. Roid had offered Nunn the typical, disgusting 10% split of the fight purse, got told to F off, then was dumb enough to lose the purse bidding to the Nunn camp. Now not getting the license fee and unable to just keep all the extra revenue for himself, and also publicly unhappy with Nunn getting his rightful 25% split as challenger, shameless Roid pathetically tried to BUY the fight off Nunn's promoters and was told to F off again.)

So...

Step 1. Relinquish your trinket rather than give the #1 challenger his title shot on HBO for his rightful purse, then sit back and wait for the top 2 contenders to box for the vacant title.
Step 2. Months later, simply ask the governing body to just hand you back your title...which miraculously they did. (Hey, no one had ever been arrogant & brazen enough to even think to ask before Roid.)
Step 3. After the inevitable legal action due to Roid refusing to box the new champion - who has since been demoted to "interim champion" (it was merely wbc “typographical errors” on all contracts and promotions when crowning the new champion and listing him as such for 3 months, see?), arrange a title fight to appear to be cleaning up the mess...then simply cancel it using the first excuse available - however weak.

The excuse to call off the fight – that Roid's opponent had missed a press conference (yet had twice given assurance in writing that he was in training camp over in Germany) – was particularly bogus and hypocritical considering Jones regularly skipped press conferences himself and without explanation. But that's the stupidity and arrogance of Roid Jones Jr for you.

As a bonus for Roid, the #2 challenger had defeated the #1 to become the new "interim" champion, so Roid had actually managed TWO ducks in one go!!! A double-duck! GENIUS!

Unfortunately this was all both obviously illegal and completely unethical, making it by far the dumbest duck in boxing history, resulting in the corrupt governing body being sued and ordered to pay $31 million in damages and Roid being retrospectively stripped of his unlawfully acquired trinket up until the new champion Rocchigiani lost - which was to the true division kingpin in 2000 – a fight which Rocchigiani took [which the true champ - not being a greedy cherrypicking ducker - had no problem accepting, further putting Roid to shame] after, in an inexplicable U-turn, the wbc had suddenly quit their attempt at damage control in trying to make Roid box Rocchigiani and scandalously dropped Rocchigiani from their rankings altogether due to...wait for it.... inactivity! :roflatsch

Rocchigiani was treated with contempt; robbed of his wbc title, earnings, and 2 years of his career - after which time he was over the hill as a top fighter. Disgusting.

Jones and the wbc didn't even stop to consider that Nunn and Rocchigiani weren't just mandatory bums and actually had strong management behind them in the Goosens and Kohl who wouldn't stand for their outrageous antics, hence were publicly humiliated and completely exposed for what they are;

We Be Crooks :deal.
Reluctant Roid 'Pinnochio' Jones; the biggest cherrypicking ducker of his generation and general p.o.s. :deal

 

Look at this recent clip of Jones being questioned about Steve Collins. He's still lying and clearly getting pr*ckly about the criticism for ducking opponents, which still and always will hang over him like a black cloud;

[yt]OnwsNoDTYk4[/yt]

Just one of many avoided rivals;

[yt]L9_171vbhRg[/yt]

 

Anyways, who's looking forward to the upcoming potentially operatic curtain-closing Glass Jaw Encore episode of Roid Jones' trainwreck of a career - ironically against fellow glass jawed disgrace (and Wales' ugliest man) Enzo Macarinelli? A genuINE Glass Jaw Superbout with unlimited comedy potential, which if worthy will be documented in another hilarious Team Elite highlight video.

 

wow what a cowardzaghe this guy is ^^

 

Joe.Boxer,

I'm talking to a guy who hates Roy and who'll rip him at every available opportunity.

I must be out of my mind even typing to you, because you are completely incapable of having an objective debate on this subject.

Really?

Which parts?

We know how hard it makes you when Zod debates with me. It's hilarious watching you trying to convince yourself that he's put me in my place.

Get the tissues out, it's Zod again.

Zod has schooled me on nothing. How ironic of you to mention the word 'fantasy'

Let me tell you a few things about Zod:

1. He can be a GREAT poster. He has great knowledge, and I've learnt a hell of a lot from him since I've been a member. We've had some great debates. I've always enjoyed and respected how he uses links to back up his points.

2. Despite what I've wrote above, he's completely biased when it comes to Roy. He's contradicted himself on numerous occasions, and he's the only guy I've ever seen who actually posts links, and then comes back and argues against them in the future.

Same old, same old.

You're so predictable.

I knew what you'd typed before I read it all.

Don't be worrying about me. Go and concentrate on your own behaviour.

Ah, the predictable dig at Mind Reader.

I didn't see that coming.

I'm shocked.

Finally, a bit of honesty.

It called being biased and argumentative.

 

Seriously, who wants to see either of these guys get hurt?

Certainly not true boxing fans.

 

Let's be real here:

Roy beat James Toney for the IBF title and he tried to unify the other main belts against Liles and Nardiello. Both HBO (who publicly trashed Roy at times) confirmed that as well as Frankie's manager. And there is literally nothing you can say that will change that.

Collins only held the lightly regarded WBO belt.

Regarding 1999, you would have hammered Roy if he'd have fought Collins. You'd have crucified him.

You'd be typing things such as:

'Roy was a joke. He ducked Michalczewski to instead fight a washed up Collins who hadn't fought for 2 years'

Seriously, why do you care that he didn't fight Collins? All it is, is an opportunity for you to criticise him.

Not fighting Collins doesn't affect Roy's resume in anyway whatsoever.

 

Joe.Boxer,

I agree that at times, he left many people frustrated, including myself. But if you want a serious debate, you have to be willing to be objective. Which again, you aren't.

Do you seriously think that I wanted to keep seeing him fighting the Frazier's of the world? (no disrespect intended) Of course not. But I've seen EVIDENCE where Roy pursued big fights, and I understand that as well as being the greatest sport in the world, boxing is also a ruthless business. There's lots of things that happen behind the scenes that your average fan isn't privy to.

Absolute nonsense.

Don't talk about lineal. Zolt Erdei was the lineal champ at one point. I'm sure you'd have given huge credit to Roy for beating him.

He was never 'The Man' in any weight class? Really? After he'd taken out Malinga and Toney at SMW, who was 'The Man' at that weight? Eubank? Collins? Benn? Liles? Nardiello? Who??

He wasn't 'The Man' at LHW? What, just because Dariusz had gotten to Hill first?

Roy was 'The Man' in boxing, not just at SMW and LHW.

How did he avoid Gerald like the plague?

A low ball offer to Liles? Show me. HBO backed Roy live when he said he'd offered Frankie 7 figures. Do you really think they'd have done that without being shown proof? Again, Frankie's manager said that Frankie had a GREAT fight lined up against Roy, but he blew it by going back and asking for more. And that was the guy who Frankie lived with and who'd gotten the best out of him. According to HBO, Liles had never fought for a 7 figure sum at that point of his career.

Show me the specifics of a Benn fight.

Calzaghe? Ha! You've got to be kidding.

Roch? HBO didn't even want that at one point.

Jirov? Roy went up to HW to fight Ruiz for huge money. What was a Jirov fight going to bring in?

Dariusz? We all know that Roy wouldn't go to Germany, and that Dariusz and his team wouldn't even sit down and discuss any specifics for Dariusz to go to the U.S. His resume speaks volumes. One WBO mando after the other in Germany. He clung on to that belt and milked it harder than what you'll milk yourself tonight, if Enzo stops Roy.

Hopkins? Roy priced himself out? Really?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/stories/2002-07-10-jones-hopkins.htm

As above.

Again, boxing is a ruthless business. And for every guy like Nunn, Collins and Benn who did want Roy, there were guys like Liles and Hopkins who clearly didn't.

You make it sound so simple. As though Roy could have just decided to make a big fight just like that.

Answer me this? If HBO were so disgruntled, why did they keep offering him new contracts with bonuses? Why did he fight on their network over 25 times?

If HBO were dishonest, why have you just quoted Seth Abraham?

I agree, for a man of his unique talents, his ratings were very poor. But that stemmed from not wanting to tie in with a promoter because he was controlled for 23 years of his life by his father.

The 'Roycott' was BS that stemmed from frustration.

Tell me what his options were at that time? He couldn't reach a compromise with Dariusz, and he'd got a keen eye on King's MW tournament looking at possibly meeting Hopkins or Tito in a big money fight.

You see, you won't be able to answer any of these questions that I've put to you.

What happened to the 'Roycott' ? How long did it last? Because when Hopkins wouldn't come to the table, Roy fought Ruiz and Tarver and everyone was happy.

He was royding from 88 was he? That explains it all then.

Yeah, he was so scared of getting his chinned exposed, he fought a 230 pound HW and tried to fight Evander.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwjH0t-9k9fJAhWLthQKHZCSBtIQ6AEIIzAB

Makes sense.

:good

The hatred is stronger than I first thought.

:rofl

Hey Einstein, has it never occurred to you that when Roy was on top his circumstances were different therefore he didn't need to make the concessions that he needs to today?

Keep going to those counselling sessions. There's a long road ahead of you.

:good

 

What the WBC did in handing Roy his title back, was nothing short of disgusting. I'm glad Roch took them to court and he deserved every single penny they paid him. It was outrageous.

Regarding Nunn, I always wanted Roy to fight him, but he was in a bit of a no win position. Nunn was a high risk, low reward fight. Roy was used to fighting lesser opponents at that time for a lot more money. But when Roy relinquished his belt, he went to Atlanta to meet Evander and his attorney Jim Thomas to discuss a potential fight, as per the link in my previous post. When Evander wasn't interested he signed to fight Buster Douglas. And after his father blocked it, he fought Hill at a catch weight for more than twice the amount that a Nunn fight would have brought. He was also given a brand new Rolls Royce as a gift. Also, Roy spoke of fighting at HW, before Nunn was even named as his mandatory. If you think he ducked Nunn out of fear, that's fair enough. But it seems odd that a guy who was scared of Nunn, would pursue Liles and Evander.

 

1: Jones had given Collins his word that he would be next after Frazier and then fought Reggie instead.
Dibella's proposal to fight Calzaghe came AFTER Jones had already messed Collins around.
2: The only way you could claim Jones meant Calzaghe was if Jones corrected himself and ACTUALLY said that, but he did not.

I also mentioned that the whole thing was to mess Collins around. He had NO intention of fighting him

But you are only allowing the scenario you like. How do you not know that it was not his intention all along to fight Reggie and he just wanted to mess Collins about.? Dibella said himself he didn't know anything about a Jones-Collins fight and he was the guy who would of paid for it.

But you previously said that Collins was not interested in Dibella's proposal.

You rank the fighters on what they have done not on what belts they hold
Collins's two wins over Eubank was better than Liles win over Nunn
Nardiello was basically a journeyman

Eubank slipped because he was cutting corners in camp. It was the reason he struggled with fighters he had no business struggling with. And as I have said before Eubanks best win came after Watson when he beat Rochigianni and he did turn in a career high performance against Wharton so he obviously was not faded

I take it you forgot what I typed in the how do you feel about Roy Jones thread about 2 years ago?

 

His fans had been frustrated for a while and the annoucement of Gonzalez as a opponent was the final straw
He could of done things differently:

He could of taken part in the proposed lhw unification tourmanment that the Goosens wanted to put together, but he refused to take part in it.
He could of fought Jirov who was a viable opponent from mid 01 onwards
He could of fought Nunn. A fight his fans wanted. Nunn came 2nd in the poll after D.M
And he was lying about the amount of money he offered Hopkins

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/comment/rafael.htm