Finally did research on Roy Jones. He actually did avoid most of the top MW-SMW.

True.

All I am doing here is repeating the same old points I have made in the past. So it's time for me to leave this threads behind

1: I was wrong about the DM thing, I will admit that. It was Dan Rafaels old article that changed my views on that topic.

2: I will admit I have been overly harsh on certain fighters as well.

 

Seems over a course of time, others are noticing what I mentioned to Loudon about how he posts from opinion rather than facts

 

Another example again Loudon

 

There you go posting from opinion again atsch

 

general zod,

I don't have to claim anything. No, he didn't correct himself there. But I've seen other articles/interviews where he mentioned Collins and made references to him not fighting Joe.

That's only your opinion. You're quick to pull me on how I interpret things but take a look at yourself.

As above.

Are you not only allowing for the scenario that you like?

It's completely hypocritical of you to say that I only believe what I want to.

Has it ever occurred to you, that after he'd been challenged out face to face in the heat of the moment, that he might have meant it when he first agreed? Was that not possible? Was it not possible that when he gave Levin the green light it was genuine out of pride? Was it not then possible that after the dust had settled and he'd thought about it, that he could have changed his mind to go with a better business decision?

You won't entertain that notion will you?

From your perspective Roy had to have purposely messed him around, no ifs or buts.

How long had Roy worked with the Levin's at that point? Ten years? If he'd have had no intention whatsoever of ever fighting Collins, why would he have purposely made Levin look bad?

I don't condone what Roy did at all. But it's more than possible that Murad talked him out of it and steered him towards a fight with Reggie instead as a better business decision. After all, that's why Murad was brought on board.

To be fair, he did get injured in training. But I've seen Collins say on numerous occasions that he desperately wanted Roy and had no real motivation to face Joe in 97 or 99.

That's your opinion. But you once said that in terms of ability, Collins was on the same level as someone like Dave Tiberi. Again, you said Eubank had no business losing to a guy like that.

You've said in a previous post that he slipped after the Watson incident. And everyone knows he did. If you want me to retract my statement, I'll change it to - he was slightly faded then. I'm happy to do that. I'm not saying that he was shot, but he clearly wasn't the same guy. And Collins beating him in a close fight doesn't amaze me.

Enlighten me.

 

general zod,

He could have, but it's hindsight.

His hardcore fans and boxing fans in general were desperate for a Dariusz fight.

But let's not pretend that he fought a long line of bums and everyone was on his case.

After unifying against Reggie, he fought the mouthy Telesco who HBO wanted to him fight, and then he fought Hall and the winner of Tarver-Harding.

He took keep busy fights against Harmon and Gonzalez, while Davis was trying to negotiate with Dariusz's team. And as well as that, they were also waiting to see how King's MW tournament unfolded.

True. But he didn't have a huge list of great options, which is documented in the article that you've posted.

I'd have liked to have seen a Jirov fight, but I don't believe that he gave it any serious thought until fights against Dariusz and Tito/Hopkins were dead in the water.

A fight against Dariusz would obviously have been at LHW, and a fight between Hopkins/Tito would always have had to have been at a catch-weight. So realistically, he was never going to go up to CW at that point.

How do you mean he was lying?

Your article by USATODAY was from early 2001.

The one I posted was about 18 months later in mid 2002.

Both articles were written by Dan Rafael.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/stories/2002-07-10-jones-hopkins.htm

 

Why is Collins always brought when Jones beat the man that beat Collins ? All this nonsense needs to stop stack each of the guys who Roy so called avoided and compare resumes ! None of them have as good of a resume as Roy but he ducked guys like Collins gtfo !

 

Only legit clearcut "duck was Dariusz M. Roy coulda made it happen while it was hot (and it was for a while) but he chose not to.
All the other guys on OP's list were on brief collision course with Roy but either suffered setbacks (McCallum) or losses (McClellan, Benn, Nunn) or politically not possible to deal with (Eubank)

 

He chose not to are you re writing history .HBO bent over backwards to get Darius to agree to a fight with Roy go educate yourself on this Darius was happy staying inGermany making a boat load of money fighting stiff after stiff after winning the belts !

 

Armchairs are the worst posters ever. They stick to their agenda and never even tried the sport, lmao.

 

What are you trying to say? Did Darius duck Roy or was it the other way around?

I really don't see how Roy ducked anyone. He was the best P4P fighter for a while.

 

Dm ducked Roy ..HBO made every attempt to get that fight done to no success ..Dm"/ team never responded to their efforts ..

 

bailey,

Read carefully:

Yes, among others.

You're always asking if people were watching back then, but were you?

Did you ever buy other boxing magazines etc?

It wasn't just The Ring.

1. I fully respect your opinion.

2. After almost 4 years of debating with me, you should know that I'm not influenced by anything or anyone. I can make up my own mind.

Regarding Eubank, he had a great career. But his form was hit and miss leading up to Roy's win over Toney:

He had issues with Malinga.

He drew with Ray Close, with a lot of people believing he'd lost.

He drew with Benn, admitting later that Benn deserved the win:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/chris-eubank-nigel-benn-really-2934871

He also struggled with Schommer and admitted he got his ears boxed off, but he was awarded the win based on aggression.

He then fought Wharton after Roy had beaten Toney.

So let's be honest, was he really 'The Man' at SMW after Roy had easily beaten Toney?

Then just 4 months later, he lost to Collins.

So although he was a great fighter and again, I do respect your opinion, I think you should have a rethink.

Not only The Ring magazine classed Toney as a Pound for Pound great at the time. We know that his weight struggles take the shine off of Roy's win, but I don't think anybody would have held Eubank in higher regard from late 94 onwards.

Toney was in better form than what Eubank was in, knocking out the likes of Tim Littles in 4 rounds.

Those specific fighters weren't greater. Nobody has mentioned them. What I'm saying is, Roy beat more quality fighters overall, and he beat them with absolute ease for the most part.

I guess so.

Roy had trouble with Griffin before losing his head. You saw the rematch.

Of course you'd prefer Dariusz. You're never going to agree with me.

Dariusz deserves zero credit for the first Roch win. What he did was a disgraceful. I'll give him credit for the rematch though.

You don't think there's anything in it?

He destroyed Hill just after Dariusz had beaten him and was the only guy to knock him out in 58 fights.

He destroyed Griffin before Dariusz got to him.

He toyed with Reggie Johnson.

He gave a merciless hiding to Hall, who gave Dariusz trouble in 2 fights.

Again, he easily beat Gonzalez who beat Dariusz.

He beat Eric Harding and Antonio Tarver.

He toyed with Clinton Woods.


Dariusz's resume doesn't compare.

What don't you understand about the fact that Maske retired as soon as Roy got to LHW?

You've tied yourself up in knots.

You've told me that Hill was faded when Roy beat him. Which in my opinion, is fair enough.

He then went and beat Tiozzo with absolute ease 2 years later. So think about this:

If Tiozzo clearly beat Dariusz, after being beaten with ease by a faded Hill, what did that say about Dariusz at that point??

Dariusz was once a top LHW. But he obviously wasn't in 2005 when he fought Tiozzo.

What Dariusz had done previously, was completely irrelevant. So Roy clearly had better wins than Tiozzo's over Dariusz.

Roy's wins over Hill, Griffin and Tarver were obviously better.

So either Dariusz was shot when he fought Tiozzo, or he wasn't as good as what you think he was.

Which is it?

Good luck trying to spin your way out of that.

And?

You've dug yourself a hole that you can't get out of.

Once again, so what if Tarver had lost to Harding and Johnson? He also beat them.

Yes, Tarver lost to a version of Roy who was exhausted. But it was a very close fight and Roy was the best fighter on the planet at the time.

Just admit you exaggerated.

Roch was not levels ABOVE Antonio Tarver. He couldn't even beat Frederic Seillier.

A faded Nunn who couldn't beat Roch was also not levels ABOVE Tarver.

Fabrice Tiozzo who was iced in a single round by a faded Hill was also not levels ABOVE Tarver.

Stop digging.

It's a joke.

No he wasn't. You're being ridiculous. He had good hand speed.

How can you just dismiss the fact that he also beat Harding and Johnson, and he shocked the world by beating Roy in the rematch?

Seriously, what planet are you on?

Again:

Tarver beat Roy in 2 rounds.

A faded Hill beat Tiozzo in a single round, 5 years before Tiozzo beat Dariusz in what you believe was a great win.

Yet despite the above, you're insistent that Tiozzo was levels ABOVE Tarver?

That's crazy talk.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?img...d=0ahUKEwjmjPmMs9rJAhVFthQKHWvVA1cQMwgfKAEwAQ

I never said Roy fought them.

I'm arguing about your ridiculous Tarver comment.

Yes, Roch was a very good fighter. But just how good was he, seeing as though he'd had 2 close fights with Maske and he couldn't beat Frederic Seillier? Neither could he beat Eubank at home, who again, had struggled with Close and Schommer etc.

There's no evidence to suggest that he was levels above Tarver.

We've both agreed in the past that Hill was faded when he fought Dariusz and Roy. So I assumed that you would have thought he was also faded when he faced Maske too.

You really think that it's alarming for me to say that Chad Dawson was on the same level as the likes of Roch and Tiozzo etc?

I think we should make a thread and have a poll.

You're playing the 'age' card now?

You celebrate Joe's win over a 43 year old Hopkins, but you now want to dismiss Dawson's wins?

Seems fair.


Great debate.

:good

 

Keep in mind technically Dariusz was the linear champ regardless of how many belts Roy was collecting at 175. Dariusz as the longtime topdog at 175 didnt have to agree to anyone else's terms. It was up to Roy to go after him to make the fight. Roy apparantly wasnt comfortable going over to Germany. Thats a knock on Roy not Dariusz