Dempsey vs Liston

If we take the Clay losses as genuine then Dempsey is a live dog for sure. I'd give Dempsey a great chance vs Clay, just going by Henry Cooper' s near ko.

 

What if we take the fact that at the age Sonny fought Clay, Dempsey was well retired.

And furthermore, a 1962 Liston walks thru any version of Tunney.

 

That's no way to talk about Bert Sugar...

I think Liston establishes the distance with his jab and cross, breaking Dempsey down. Should Dempsey get inside, in an attempt to pound the body and land the left hook, Liston crushes him with short hooks and thumping uppercuts.

Liston by KO in round 4.

 

Sonny QUIT ON HIS STOOL as champ in 1964..lost by a,...."ahem"
KO...aka...(phantom punch) in Maine in 1965. No quit in Dempsey.

 

I consider Dempsey a superior fighter (sum take unbridge to the use of the word boxer) to Liston but Liston is too big.

Unlike Rocky Dempsey has proven himself against proper HW fighters, however against Liston he is not going to be able to have his way inside where Liston is stronger, harder hitting and a superior shot selector.

Dempsey had 3 game plans 1) bully behind a jab. 2) stalk from range until an opening presents itself and then seek and destroy. 3) leave his chin in the air and go for broke.

All 3 are a losing strategy against Liston. His best chance is strategy 2, hope he can beat Liston to the punch inside and hope that one barrage can cause the end of the fight.

Is it can't end it, and he tastes the power of Sonny, I'm convinced it will prevent him trying to work his way inside.

 

1. He'd have to learn how to jab first
2. Sort of but more a case of stepping in and out, feinting, bobbing and weaving before launching combinations. Basically what Patterson did better
3. If he can be first and back up Liston that maybe

I disagree Liston is P4P worse, I mean he is in the sense he's less agile but in terms of defense and technical skills he's better. He's a far better jabber, better at parrying/blocking blows, better counter punching, shorter punches, more 2 handed, could throw uppercuts better, better right, could bodypunch better

 

He didn't have to have the most accurate jab because of his speed and power, it was enough to beat everyone smaller than he including Tommy Gibbons.

I change my mind depending upon how I view Dempsey's defence at the time. Can't decide whether the Firpo fight was a one off or whether the herky footage hides how hittable he really was.

Right now I see him as a bit of an athletic freak and one who would hold his own against cruiser in history.

Liston is an incredible talent though.

 

There was no quit in Floyd Patterson either, didn't help him much against Liston.

 

Exactly, let's say Dempsey does close the gap, how I he gonna stand up to power shots from a man weighing 20 pound more.

 

Logic would have to say Liston...
But I don't think it's the slam dunk many on here are saying. Dempsey's fights often turned into wild life and death slugfests. As many on here know, Dempsey stated when he looked at Willard across the ring, he was afraid for his life...He fought with a 'kill or be killed' mindset. What would Liston 'the bully', think of this kind of 'crazy'?
I think that Liston has the power and technique to KO Dempsey...but I also think Dempsey has an advantage in speed, and also has the power to hurt anyone he hits, including Liston. The power
Dempsey generates from short punches in the Firpo fight, is a power display of leverage in action against a huge man.
About closing the gap...Dempsey charged like a wildman against Firpo, but against Willard, he let the bigger man close the distance for him. If he charged Liston, like he did Firpo, I think Liston would KO him early, and I lean towards Liston...but imo Dempsey has a shot, if he lets Liston come to him, this gives him the opportunity to use the speed advantage, and maybe hurt Liston. Interesting fight

 

Liston was aged at the time of the Ali/Clay fights, at an age long after Dempsey was a viable fighter.

However, a PRIME Dempsey,depending on which version of the story you believe, was either KO'd or quit against sloppy has been.

 

SIMPLE, How is Liston able to take the vicious punching of a prime Dempsey who will "GET THERE FIRST" ? Remember S much more than NOT, SPEED KILLS...Forget about Lil Ole Dempsey weighing about 190-195 for a Liston. Dempsey in his muscular prime was described as "amazingly strong", and contrary to your bias was one tough son of a ***** in the trenches. And Dempsey knowing about Liston would be more cautious then his rushing pell mell into Firpo. Look how he cautiously boxed against the 75 pound heavier Willard until he hooked that tremendous left hook that shattered big Jess's chin and dropped Willard to the canvas for the very first time in his career. Remember Dempsey had to AIM UP to even REACH Willard's
jaw instead of punching straight from the shoulder as taught by trainers.What heavyweight you know could have that devastating
power to do that ? Even the great Joe Louis took THIRTEEN rounds to
stop the very hittable Abe Simon. Remember that and ponder what I post..Adieu...

 

Your bias is sickening.

Patterson's hand speed did not help him against Liston one bit.

 

Dempsey if he keeps his IRON ROD IN HIS HAND. JESS WILLARD NEVER FORGET LAST TRUE HW CHAMPION

WACK Dempsey loses in first round by Liston one PUNCH

 

OK Luf. I get your drift. If I conclude that Jack Dempsey has a great chance of beating the slower Liston it is because I'm BIAS. But you sir are holier than thou...I will match my knowledge, experience and reasoning with you anytime and anyplace sir...To shut down one man's opinion by calling him "bias" is a new low, sir...