Wladimir vs the following

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Dec 24, 2015.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There is nothing biased about what he say's about Dempsey.
     
  2. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    He's blowing Dempsey up as if he were some sort of mythological phenom while laying out the most basic info about Klitschko, focusing more on his early career setbacks rather than what he accomplished under Stewards tutelage, which in all honesty is far more impressive than Dempseys own career.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Certainly Dempsey’s early career had its share of setbacks.

    Dempsey was a bit of a mythological phenom at his best however.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Given that Wlad isn't allowed to clinch I'm struggling to picture him being effective.

    I mean yes, jabbing and straight from range is his bread and butter. But if a hard hitting man slips un and makes Wlad fight, can anyone see any options besides Wlad tumbling?
     
  5. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    :good
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    To be fair, you only said that he could not clinch excessively.

    He still has clinching related options.
     
  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Wlad VS Baer

    Two big and powerful men. Both with good jabs and devasting rights. But one difference, Klitschko is slower than a snail moving through quicksand and he stands straight up and stiff. He relies too much on his power and exposes himself to counter punches. Baer could be very wild and somewhat unorthodox in the ring which drove alot of his opponents nuts. Until he would kayo them. And remember that Joe Louis was the first man to knock Baer down. Klitschko is no Louis. Baer by late kayo.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Ok so given he can clinch 4 or 5 times because that's hardly excessive.

    Does he have the feet and fluidity to prevent someone more than 4 or 5 inside attacks per round?

    If he cannot stop someone getting inside 4 or 5 times a run he has to knock them out in my mind, but to knock then out he has to throw the right and to that he gives a window of opportunity for attack.

    Today Dempsey would likely be about 215 pounds. Without clinching I think I favour him to knock Wlad out.

    I've not made my mind up but I'm leaning towards the mind set that without clinching Wlad never becomes a great champion.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The historian would say, that a lot of great champions relied upon clinching.
     
  10. Stallion

    Stallion Son of Rome Full Member

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    Klitschko would probably hurt Dempsey even if he only landed on Dempsey's guard.

    There is a really good chance that he would blast both Dempsey and Johnson on the same night. After all, those guys boxed nearly 100 years ago.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Did bones break any easier 100 years ago?
     
  12. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Walcott vs Wlad
    I think Walcott's foot and upper body movements would cause some problems for Walcott. He was very awkard. Marciano had major issues with him in their first fight and he gave Joe louis all he could handle in both fights.

    Louis had an excellent jab too but Walcott did an excellent job negating it with his unorthodox style. He just made the mistake of trading combinations with Louis in their rematch.

    Give me Walcott by KO.
     
  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Sonny Liston vs Wlad
    I see Liston as one of the most underrated champions in history. He had a variety of punches that could knock any heavyweight out. The jab (of all punches, I could easily envision him knocking a glass jawed man mountain like Wlad with his jab alone) was strong enough to knock four of an opponents teeth out, his left hook and right were both devastating KO finshers. Sonny could move pretty well too. He was hurt early by Cleveland Big Cat Williams and had to go defensive but came back for the win. Sonny was tough and had heart. He also had an 84" reach and 15" fists!

    Sonny fought from 1953 to 1970 before being found dead in mysterious cirumstances and his record is pretty remarkable. He won and won and won, losing only a SD to Marty Marshall where he suffered a broken jaw early on. After that he continued to win and win, being continually ducked by Floyd Patterson. Once Floyd finally fought him, Liston KO'd him in the 1st round twice. Sonny's winning streak was only broken because he happened to run into the greatest heavyweight of all time. Off the back of being beaten by the greatest of all time, he went on another streak of wins. By this time people think he may well have been in his fifties! His last fight was a stoppage of a man it would take Ali himself another five rounds to stop.

    When Sonny was anywhere near his best, he cut a swathe through a tough heavyweight division and the only man to really beat him was Muhammad Ali. And even both those fights were questionable! He'd beat anybody.

    Against Wlad I'd see Liston being the aggressor, despite his size, Wlad is a timid fighter, and isn't used to an even more explosive jab coming back at him when he fires off his own. Seriously, Wlad has never shared the ring with anything close to Sonny. As the song goes "Sonny could lick all them cats!"

    Wlad and Sonny trade rounds for a time, then in the mid rounds Sonny lowers the boom and KO's Wlad. In Sonny, Wlad's got a guy who can fight at range and rough him up on the inside, a guy who can hit harder and has vastly better stamina and can take a hit. Sonny is all wrong for Wlad.
     
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I would disagree.

    Jeffries and Johnson were known to be notorious clinchers.
    Carnera was known to clinch.
    Ali clinched so he could beat Frazier.
    Tyson was clinched a lot but rarely initiated it.
    Lewis clinched at times but when he was not allowed he demonstrated one of the best inside uppercuts out there.

    There is no one bar Wlad and maybe the early champions who actually relied on being the stronger man in the clinch.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Keep up the good work Swag. Don't agree with every pick but I do really appreciate the detailed ****ysis.