So you think his physical prowess was enough to overcome the skill deficiency he faced? It's true that he could have had his full career in the CW division, but I'm not on about contending with SHW fighters I'm on about his abilities and how they took him so far in the era he did fight in. If you watch film of Rocky v Walcott you wouldn't favour him against Charles or Moore, but he still managed to knock them both out.
Charles and Moore went from pound for pound GOATs to bums any wild brawler could beat the moment they tipped the scales at 175.5, everyone knows this.
I rate Walcott a better heavyweight than Charles or Moore. Simply put Rocky was around at the right time.He butted and fouled Lastarza atrociously in their rematch, Lastarza was all but defenceless in the last 4 rds yet he was still there.? Lastarza said he lost the full use of his right arm in the second round. ****ell took everything flush for 9rds before he wilted ,ditto Moore.Rocky just ground them down ,because he was, better conditioned than any heavyweight I have seen, he was able to still throw his heaviest punches late in a fight .Add to that he had a tremendous will to win ,was seemingly impervious to punishment and fought in an era when fights were allowed to go longer than would be permitted today.
Marciano did, thanks to fouls and stamina. The two years Charles weighed 175, and the odd fights Moore starved down to light heavy...greatest boxing you'll ever see. They would beat anyone from 175 to 200 plus. But at 185 Against another 185 pound man, giving up too much size. Their greatness shriveled.
I rate Walcott a better HW than Moore but not Charles. Timing isn't a good enough answer imo because I can't imagine a man would fluke his way to top spot and staying there. He just have more to his game than meets the eye. I am starting to think his power was better than I thought to the degree it hurts that much it puts anyone off their game plan no matter where he hits them.
From 46 to 53 Charles essentially beat everyone he faced and he faced some of the best in the sport. From 45 to 61 Moore essentially beat everyone he faced bar Patterson, Marciano and Charles. These men were great no matter weight they fought at. But like everyone out there, they could be beat.
I doubt anyone hit harder at 185lbs and of course with his great conditioning he was able to still be hitting with full power all through a fight. Marciano tried to ko Lastarza with one punch after 6 rds in which he lost 4 of them, he switched tactics and began concentrating on combos and sand bagging the body,it paid off. Charles may have been the greatest Lhvy ever ,[he made that weight for 4 years],but he isn't a great heavyweight imo. Moore had over 50 fights at or near 175lbs and still made that weight when he was 35 years old, when he defended his title.
In all seriousness, Charles, Marciano, and Moore were roughly the same weight range. Charles and Moore fought at lighter weights because they started younger and Moore also had ulcers. Charles mostly fought heavies when he was 175 anyway and his greatness didn't slip until his crazy schedule caught up with him and he couldn't prepare for every fight. He was well prepared for Marciano however.
Why does any puncher beat a great boxer? Same here to a large degree, as answered in several threads. I too want to add that I think Marciano's subtleties of the game are underrated. His head movement was excellent. Also, the way he moved his head in conjunction with his footwork. He didn't just move his head, but he moved forward as he was ducking. He was able to move forward fairly quickly as he was dipping, which closes the distance faster and more often if one has the confidence, relentlessness, and condition to keep it up nonstop. Most fighters stop moving in when someone throws at them - not Rocky. He also actually had great timing and the ability to aggressively counterpunch, which increased his speed. So if you are moving in, able to elude, and able to continue coming forward while firing or firing back, you close distance very quickly, which forces fighters to deal with you on the inside, where Marciano excelled at beating away at the head and body. That is how you break a fighter down over time. If you grab him, he was strong enough to work his hands free and dig short shots. If you move from him he just tracks you down. And when you try to hit him he just ducks and moves in and fires back immediately. Dealing with that type of fighter for 15 rounds isn't easy for anyone.
I agree that he was perhaps fortunate for having fought amidst such a dearth of talent; that certainly helped his record, but there's no denying that he was special. Marciano just had a bruising physicality about him, the kind of guy that unintentionally crushes your hand when he shakes it, that just seems to be physically larger than he really is. There was also I think a sort of strange acceptance that what he had to do was going to require levels of discomfort and pain that most just wouldn't bother putting up with. There was a single-mindedness to Marciano that was rare; it served him both in honing his strange, crablike style over untold hours in the gym and also in convincing himself that he could take anything his opponent could dish out. That kind of single-mindedness can become a kind of obsession, and when you're THAT ensconced in the daily rigors required by that kind of focus, you can burn out or spiral off into something else entirely, which is I think what happened to Marciano eventually. He just couldn't keep up with that intensity. Who could?
Marciano was hard to read. There was no real sequence to follow. He kept a fighter thinking. And he had good radar. You could hit him once but it was hard to hit him two consecutive shots without becoming entangled with him. It is well known Rocky came in low but he followed through further than expected so when he missed he was in range for the next punch. So he cut distance at an unexpected rate. He also came up with a punch at an angle from a range that was unusual. And above all he feinted his way in creating openings. Rocky was clever and good at luring or drawing a man down to his range. Once he was inside he could land at a tighter angle than almost anyone else could.
That's the point of the thread, let's shine a spotlight on these subtleties and tell the world about them!