Why do people think Frazier would beat a prime Ali?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 30, 2015.


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  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I suppose the scorecards to The Fight Of The Century can give an indication of how good Ali would have had to have been to have beaten Frazier that night. The scores were:

    9:6 Frazier
    8:6:1 Frazier
    11:4 Frazier (what was this guy watching?)

    UNANIMOUS DECISION FOR JOE FRAZIER

    Now if Frazier didn't actually knock Ali down in round fifteen but still won the final round they would have read:

    8:7 Frazier
    7:7:1 DRAW
    10:5 Frazier

    MAJORITY DECISION FOR JOE FRAZIER

    Now, just for fun lets say Ali wins the final round, hell he started it well and often finished fifteen round decisions with excellent rounds, we get:

    8:7 Ali
    8:6:1 Ali
    8:7 Frazier

    SPLIT DECISION FOR MUHAMMAD ALI

    Yes, thats how close it was, I think my maths is correct! So in essence all the peak 1967 Ali has to do is not get knocked down and win one more round. Hell, I dont want to upset any Ali haters, but I think a peak Ali has more than that one extra round in the bag and the ability to stay errect for the distance over the 1971 Ali.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 30, 2015
    swagdelfadeel, Dec 30, 2015
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Your maths is ****ed up. If Frazier wins the last round but doesn't knock Ali down, why does that cost him points?

    If Ali had won the final round you get:

    10-5 Frazier
    8-7 Frazier
    7-7-1 Draw
     
    McGrain, Dec 30, 2015
    McGrain, Dec 30, 2015
    #2
  3. ribtickler68

    ribtickler68 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's hard to say, really. Frazier always had the style to trouble Ali, but the layoff couldn't have helped Ali. It depends on whether you believe Ali could have hurt Frazier more than he did in FOTC, to either stop him or render him totally ineffective. Ali might have been more accurate before the layoff, but did he hit harder? He never fought anyone like Frazier in his "prime", either.
     
    ribtickler68, Dec 30, 2015
    ribtickler68, Dec 30, 2015
    #3
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  4. boxfan22

    boxfan22 Active Member Full Member

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    BECAUSE THEY ARE FRAIZER FANBOYS.

    Ali even admitted that he played with joe fraizer too much in their first encounter.
     
    boxfan22, Dec 30, 2015
    boxfan22, Dec 30, 2015
    #4
  5. bdd123

    bdd123 Member Full Member

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    I think the better movement and more accurate punching of a prime Ali beats Frazier. I also believe without the layoff he would've gotten bigger or matured and been stronger without the loss of his footwork. Still would've been a hard fight but a little less so
     
    bdd123, Dec 30, 2015
    bdd123, Dec 30, 2015
    #5
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  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    No heavyweight beats a prime Ali imo
     
    reznick, Dec 30, 2015
    reznick, Dec 30, 2015
    #6
  7. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali was more open to the left hook prior to fighting Frazier so the thought is Ali would be open for that punch even in his prime.

    My thought is the speed and ability to go 15 rounds would earn Ali a decision win.
     
    Perry, Dec 30, 2015
    Perry, Dec 30, 2015
    #7
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  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Its doubtful to me that Joe beats Ali of the 60's. As it was, Muhammad Ali defeated Joe Frazier two out of three times and gave him fits in the one and only meeting he lost. This was after having fought only twice in four years and looking flat footed in his last outing with Oscar Bonavena. I do however concur with those who feel Joe would always be a tough fight though. He was very fast with incredible upper body movement, workrate and a great left hook which always troubled Muhammad.
     
    mr. magoo, Dec 30, 2015
    mr. magoo, Dec 30, 2015
    #8
  9. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Still baffles me how Ali was unable to avoid the left hook after 3 encounters, for a man with great fighting instincts why didn't he try and block the shot instead of trying to pull his head out of the way.
     
    Wass1985, Dec 30, 2015
    Wass1985, Dec 30, 2015
    #9
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is how I see it.
     
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2015
    Bokaj, Dec 30, 2015
    #10
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali defended himself much better in fight two and fight three from the hook. Fight one Joe could not miss.
     
    Perry, Dec 30, 2015
    Perry, Dec 30, 2015
    #11
  12. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He was still getting caught regularly, I think it was more due to Frazier deterioting in the last two fights than Ali improving.
     
    Wass1985, Dec 30, 2015
    Wass1985, Dec 30, 2015
    #12
  13. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Clay was a superb boxer but he would lose now and then....He was lucky against Foreman....easily could have lost the third fight with Frazier... , Henry Cooper almost knocked him out, lost twice against Norton ( yeah i know ) .
     
    heerko koois, Dec 30, 2015
    heerko koois, Dec 30, 2015
    #13
  14. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lucky against Foreman????? :nut
     
    Wass1985, Dec 30, 2015
    Wass1985, Dec 30, 2015
    #14
  15. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Foreman was sick....why was there no rematch ???:deal
     
    heerko koois, Dec 30, 2015
    heerko koois, Dec 30, 2015
    #15
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