John L Knocked Jeffries Down!

mcvey · Jan 4, 2016

janitor said: ↑

You have seriously misbehaved here!
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Oh get over yourself teacher!

mcvey · Jan 4, 2016

Mendoza said: ↑

Just another reason not to believe what he claims...
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Says the proven liar.

Mendoza · Jan 4, 2016

mcvey said: ↑

Says the proven liar.
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You're the liar. Now we know you make up stuff just to get a reaction. Shame on you.

I'm not surprised, it's in your character.

mcvey · Jan 4, 2016

Mendoza said: ↑

You're the liar. Now we know you make up stuff just to get a reaction. Shame on you.

I'm not surprised, it's in your character.
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I told two posters what I had done.
You don't have a character, you are just a cipher, now get back to your reading and writing lessons.
You sure need them!

janitor · Jan 4, 2016

Mendoza said: ↑

Janitor, I simply asked who did he wreck. You're making excuses!
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If you want more details, I would suggest reading Adams biography.

Pretty much everybody that he fought in gloved bouts either fought to survive, or got blitzed early.

He could not stop Burke or McCaffrey, two name fighters in 1885.
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Everybody fails to stop somebody eventually, and most other all-time greats didnt have to do it in four to six rounds.

What is your point exactly?

Two years later he did not stop Cardiff either. Yes, his arm injury was a reason why, but what about all the other fights?!

These three had decent records.
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A broken arm is about as good a reason as you can get for failing to stop somebody.

Any fair minded person would be asking how the hell he managed to retain his title with such an injury!

Years before it took him 30+ rounds to stop a non-punching middle in Mitchell, and 70+ rounds to stop Kilrain.
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You do understand that in a London Prize Ring fight, a round ends when a fighter is knocked down right?

It doesnt mean that number of three minute rounds.

So take your pick between lack of skill to land his power, or his power not being good enough to end the matches with the above fighters early. Sorry Janitor, that's what the record tells us.
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No, it is simply the matter that it is almost impossible to score a quick knockout, when your opponent gets 38 seconds to recover.

There have been very few quick knockouts in LPR fights, in the entire history of the sport!

For the record, I think Sullivan had a good right hand, but I also think he fought in a time with few other puncher's to compare him with and little defense, which made him stand out.
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He had a good left hand as well before he broke his arm.
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mcvey · Jan 4, 2016

janitor said: ↑

If you want more details, I would suggest reading Adams biography.

Pretty much everybody that he fought in gloved bouts either fought to survive, or got blitzed early.

Everybody fails to stop somebody eventually, and most other all-time greats didnt have to do it in four to six rounds.

What is your point exactly?

A broken arm is about as good a reason as you can get for failing to stop somebody.

Any fair minded person would be asking how the hell he managed to retain his title with such an injury!

You do understand that in a London Prize Ring fight, a round ends when a fighter is knocked down right?

It doesnt mean that number of three minute rounds.

No, it is simply the matter that it is almost impossible to score a quick knockout, when your opponent gets 38 seconds to recover.

There have been very few quick knockouts in LPR fights, in the entire history of the sport!

He had a good left hand as well before he broke his arm.
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I'd guess that Sullivan hit harder than Jeffries ,he was fast into range and had serious power.
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janitor · Jan 4, 2016

mcvey said: ↑

janitor said: ↑

Id guess that Sullivan hit harder than Jeffries ,he was fast into range and had serious power.
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Regardless of who was the better fighter, or even the harder puncher, Sullivan was unequivocally the better finisher.
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Boilermaker · Jan 4, 2016

Mendoza said: ↑

Ketchel was not in Jeffries camp. Sullivan knocked down Choynski? Source, please!

There is a film of Sullivan having a non-contact sparring with Corbett, and hitting a bag. Sullivan looked beyond terrible hitting bag. In fact he missed a speed bag. I doubt he floored Choynski in 1901. In fact, he would be winded just trying to keep up with Choynski.

Choynski did spar with Jeffries, and he looks very quick, even past 40 years old.

You guys should watch the films.

These John L legends stretch the truth to the point where you just have to shake your head. He had a chance to fight Jeffries in 1900-1901, and he would have been out quickly in 3 rounds or less.

Sullivan's prime was over by 1890! The chance of him doing well into the 1900's are slim or none.
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My source is is James J Jeffries

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=348287

It is under Clay Moyles post with the heading of Part II.

Note that this biography does seem to talk about Ketchell hitting Corbett rather than Farmer Burns. I think this may just be poor wording of the story, because i am pretty sure i have read elsewhere (also in slightly more detail) that it was Farmer Burns who was the one who was hit rather than Corbett. Of course, my memory is not always as good as it should be.

mcvey · Jan 4, 2016

Boilermaker said: ↑

My source is is James J Jeffries

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=348287

It is under Clay Moyles post with the heading of Part II.

Note that this biography does seem to talk about Ketchell hitting Corbett rather than Farmer Burns. I think this may just be poor wording of the story, because i am pretty sure i have read elsewhere (also in slightly more detail) that it was Farmer Burns who was the one who was hit rather than Corbett. Of course, my memory is not always as good as it should be.
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Ketchel was barred from the camp, it was Burns and Papke
and after Papke took a swing at the 47 years old
Burns, the wrestler got him in a hold and made him submit ,this was in front of over 400 spectators gathered to see Jeffries work out.

It's in THE GREAT WHITE HOPES by Graeme Kent page 80. Corbett and Choynski got into a blazing row and Jeffries had to be called to break them up too.

Mendoza · Jan 5, 2016

mcvey said: ↑

I told two posters what I had done.
You don't have a character, you are just a cipher, now get back to your reading and writing lessons.
You sure need them!
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So, is McGrain for fake information here? You shame the forum yet again, and I for one never bought it.

Shame on you. But we know you have little shame.:deal

Mendoza · Jan 5, 2016

janitor said: ↑

mcvey said: ↑

Regardless of who was the better fighter, or even the harder puncher, Sullivan was unequivocally the better finisher.
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Was he? When Jeffries put his men down, who were of a much better class I might add, they often stayed down or got up in a bad way and were on their way out.

Sullivan didn't flatten anyone good with a recognizable record quickly and often took many rounds to finish his men.

I listed several of his best opponents and he either failed to finish them.

You can't excuse them all, outside of the time, he broke his arm.

If you want to use Adam as a source, he'll tell you boxing was very different back then. Different in this case is was not better in the ring as that style was abandoned.

The concepts of circular and lateral movements and defense were in their infancy for boxing, which would suit a bit puncher just fine.

Essentially it was a fencing like back and forth, with a lot of clinching. Boxing evolved greatly by the time Jeffries was the champion. Sullivan himself says so!

Corbett who easily outpointed a 32-year-old past his prime Sullivan didn't play the old game, he changed it and Sullivan could not adjust.
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mr. magoo · Jan 5, 2016

Interesting story. But not anything id take to heart and certainly not anything I'd use to make a prediction in a fight.. When two guys are drunk and one of them takes a shot before the other guy expects it, anyone can get knocked down or even out.

Mendoza · Jan 5, 2016

mr. magoo said: ↑

Interesting story. But not anything id take to heart and certainly not anything I'd use to make a prediction in a fight.. When two guys are drunk and one of them takes a shot before the other guy expects it, anyone can get knocked down or even out.
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Mcvey admitted making it up.

mr. magoo · Jan 5, 2016

Mendoza said: ↑

Mcvey admitted making it up.
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Crafty

mcvey · Jan 5, 2016

Mendoza said: ↑

So, is McGrain for fake information here? You shame the forum yet again, and I for one never bought it.

Shame on you. But we know you have little shame.:deal
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McGrain suggested I tell the forum which I've done and intended to do anyway.Shame the Forum.
You really are priceless! You never bought it?

How's the Harry Greb film doing?

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