Dempsey vs Lewis

The other issue is that the next great, might be completely different from the next.

Louis was not a new Dempsey, and Ali was not a new Louis.

 

Perhaps, but he threw a hell of a good left and landed in the mid rounds, so I don't think he gave up until he was really hurt and convinced he wasn't going to win.

Lewis had to pretty much beat the **** out of him before he gave up, so I think it's an injustice to them both to say Tyson quite, rather I think he was just outmatched.

Now whether or not that would have been the case in their respective primes, is hard to say.

 

Maybe now it's Lewis with Wlad following in his footsteps.

 

Tyson had a really bad fight. It wasn't the Tyson of old.

I look at that first round as a window into how a great swarmer like prime Tyson, or Jack Dempsey would be against Lewis. In the fight, you can see that Tyson had the right style for Lewis, but he was like a ghost. In Round 2 it looked like he was hitting with 10% of his power.

To beat a swarmer like Dempsey you need either terrific power or the ability to move. As incredible of a fighter as Lewis is, I just don't see it.

 

I agree with that 100%.


Marciano is the same way. Archie Moore did everything right against Rocky. Pure textbook boxing. Slipping exactly when he needed to, landing counters at every opening. Yet, it didn't matter against Rocky.

 

I would argue,as l believe most would, that Lewis had terrific power, very likely more than Dempsey himself, and l would also argue that Lewis is far stronger.

 

And Lewis got his ass handed to him twice. I'll give you this, a prime Lewis beats a 20's Dempsey.
Let's start a thread about a 20's Lewis vs. a 2000 prime Dempsey.
See my point. Eras make fantasy matchups virtually impossible to predict.

 

I agree completely. Like l said l don't get any pleasure in picking Lewis over Dempsey but reality is reality.

 

He had great power, but not terrific power. Foreman could stand up to the best swarmers on the planet. Foreman has a great chance to beat Tyson and Dempsey on their best nights. I don't think Lewis could.

 

In terms of power punchers l think the top eshleon fighters are Foreman, Liston, Tyson and Lewis. Lewis knocked out Ruddock and Rahman in devastating fashion and punched hard enough to keep Tua from wanting to engage. All punched hard enough to potentially stop swamer type fighters. Foreman probably hit harder than Lewis did but Lewis was a better over all boxer and was more versatile and could if necessary fight on the outside and punish fighters who attempted to get in the inside. So it's a different skill set than Foreman's who essentially just out bombed a swamer but it was equally effective.

 

I don't think it's equally effective. Not that it proves anything, but
Foreman KO Frazier 2. Lewis KO Tyson (shot) 8.

I think Lewis' tradeoff of power for versatility is what would get him in trouble. Lewis could beat almost anyone on the outside, but he wouldn't stop Dempsey from getting on the inside. And once Dempsey is on the inside, Lewis is screwed. His arms are too long to trade blows in that space. He'll be a huge target, and he can't exactly dance around the ring to stay on the outside.

 

We'll agree to disagree. I agree Lewis probably couldn't trade with Dempsey on the inside but he could make if harder than hell for him to get inside and even potentially KO him in the process. He also could simply tie him up as the strength difference would massively favour Lewis.

As mentioned before one of the reasons the Tyson fight lasted as long as it did was because Lewis hurt his right hand and he stopped throwing if with full power for 3-4 rounds. But give credit where credit is due, Tyson showed he could take one hell of punch. I personally think Tyson's chin's a lot better than Dempsey's. And at the end of the Lewis doesn't need to knock out Dempsey to win he could just win by decision, nothing wrong with that.

 

Lewis definitely has a chance to catch Jack coming in. But I don't think Dempsey has ever been KO'd has he? He took some big shots from Willard. I don't see any weakness in his chin. I think Dempsey would get past the uppercut and cause destruction.

Dempsey forcefully moved Willard backwards using just his punches. This man was a bulldozer.

It would be one hell of a match, that's for sure.

 

Lewis did fine keeping away and deciding where the fight played out vs Tyson, he used footwork, jabs, counters, arms, and clinching to do so, and very very well, Tyson came in and cut distance faster than Dempsey (Its important to note Tyson had a much better style for cutting distance quickly, even this shot version, he had good head movement, better footwork, and was coming out blazing vs Lewis in that first) but wasnt able to land any real significant punches or get work done up close so I dont see why Lewis couldnt do the same to Jack.

I dont think Lennox is screwed when Dempsey gets inside because (although its where Dempsey would have his best shot to get work done) Lennox was a very good clincher, and his size along with ability in that game is going to cause serious trouble for Dempsey when/if he finally does get up close, and I dont think that Dempsey would be able to out muscle him or seriously stop Lennox's clinching/leaning tactics.

Lewis landed a lot of very good uppercuts on the incoming Tyson (in the Brennan fight Bill landed uppercuts on the incoming Dempsey a few times similarly to how Lennox landed on Tyson) and Lewis had a great right hand, theres no real doubt that Dempsey had a leaky defense, he was hurt by right hands multiple times in the footage we have of him, the way less skilled Firpo, in the first few seconds of the bout landed a right on the incoming Dempsey and dropped him to a knee, Carpentier was able to land rights on Dempsey and landed hard and really stung him bad.

Theres no doubt Lewis had incredible power, and while Lewis wasnt a mover in the style of Ali (or Tunney in the Dempsey fights), he wasnt stuck in the mud, he used his height, footwork, jabs, counters, arms, clinching etc, to make sure the fight played out where he wanted it to, a 6'5 man like Lennox with his reach dosent have to move like the smaller guys did to be classified a good mover, he used his size and tactics to get the same result.