Muhammad Ali: Washed Up At 34

Something that can be said of most fighters.

Yes, Ali probably gained some physical (but only perhaps, see below) and mental strength as well as experience when he grew older. Just about every one does. It's probably true of Louis, Holyfield, Tyson and others also.

It's also true that it very rarely makes up for the loss in speed, timing, reflexes and stamina that age brings.

And Ali's gain in physical strength in his second career is often wildly exaggerated. In the 60's he was 210-212 lbs for most of his best performances. In the 70's he was 2012-2016 lbs at his best (with the exception of his 225 in Manilla, but in that fight he clearly carried excess weight). That's about three pounds on average.

In FOTC he was only 1/2 lbs heavier than he was for his first fight against Chuvalo. And if anything he looked more cut against Chuvalo.

Shortly after beating Foreman he actually made a similar point when disagreeing with someone who thought that his younger self wouldn't have done as well against George as the older Ali did.

One shouldn't forget that Ali's KO percentage took a sharp downturn in the 70's.

Actually, I'd say that Holy, Tyson and Foreman all gained more strength late in their careers than Ali did - since they, unlike Ali, took up weight-lifting (well, Holy lifted weights all along but continued to build significant muscle mass through his 30's).

 

Ali did not weigh 225 pounds for his third match with Frazier. The weigh in was five days prior to fight time. Ali was probably below 220 by fight time.

 

He should be credited with his longevity and willingness to take on some of the men he fought when it became painfully obvious that his skills had diminished.. But yes.. He was long past it by the late 70s.. Even as early as 1975 he looked lackluster against chuck Wepner which to this day is hard to sit and watch.

 

This was the first time I heard this. He still carried a bit of excess flab, though.

 

That's the thing though, Ali seldom came into fights in tip top shape in his 2nd career. The ones that stand out are the Foreman and 2nd Norton fight. He was a fighter who fought to the level of his opponent and his conditioning usually showed that. It also led him to come unstuck on occasions, Leon Spinks for example.

 

Ali indicated the extra weight was in the event of a prolonged battle. Ali was in great shape.

 

the Frazier fights alone prime for prime were enough to take the juice out of a fighter and not many heavyweights have 3 wars like that in their career

 

I've seen well known writers mention Ali not training hard for Frazier 3 and citing Ali's weight. First Ali was in incredible shape IMO and the opinion of Ali the best of his second career up to that point. Secondly if you listen to Ken Nortons ringside commentary before the round one bell he states how early on the weight in was and his opinion of the weights of both fighters by fight time. There was no flab on Ali.....incredibly well conditioned that night and he said so within 10 minutes after the stoppage.

 

I'm not so sure the poster is 'anti-Ali'. I agree with him unfortunately.
I rank Ali as, perhaps, the greatest HW champ of all time in large part because we didn't see his 67-70 prime years.
But, in retrospect, once the mid-70's rolled around, I feel he was playing us all for fools.
His bum of the month tour was embarrassing. Richard Dunn? Alfredo? Coopman? Manilla? Two battleworn past primers. HE WAS THE 'TICKET' and the public (and judges) responded in kind.
He wasn't going to give Foreman a rematch (even the brain-dead Foreman). Norton IMO won the 3rd fight, He still had his toughness against Shavers which kept him on his feet but he got hammered in that fight. Sadly, he was shot much more earlier than many realize or will admit.

 

How on earth was it a bum of the month tour? Yes he fought Dunn and Coop man and Evangelista; in between and around those fights he fought Young and Frazier and Norton and Shavers. Those were stay busy fights which is just something people don't do anymore.

 

Hmm. What I can say about that is that he didn't seem to feel any such need in any of his other big fights: 215 for FOTC, 2012 for Norton II and Frazier II, 2016 for Foreman.

 

They decided to televise the official scores after all 15 rounds. Upwards of 30 million people watching in the U.S. alone knew the official score after every round. So did the announcers calling the fight. So did the press sitting by the announcers calling the fight. So did Ali's corner, which had a TV in the dressing room.

But in his bio, Shavers said his corner didn't know the score of the fight because they thought it was "unfair" to know during the course of the fight. And there was a TV showing the scores of the fight in Earnie's dressing room, too. People in the press section were even trying to relay to Shavers' corner during the fight the scores, and they didn't want to hear it.

On top of that, the plan devised by Earnie's trainers was for Earnie not to go all out and conserve his energy in case it went all 15 and they had to outpoint Ali, because Earnie had never gone 15 before.

You've got one of the hardest punchers in history, against one of the best boxers in history, they're telling you the scores after each round ... and your plan is to try to win on points while actively avoiding how the fight is being scored?

Entering the 15th round, everyone with a TV, everyone in press row, Ali's corner and the guys next to the ring calling the fight, knew Shavers needed a knockout to win.

But Earnie's corner thought they were ahead. And Ali still almost stopped him in the last round. And, after the fight, Shavers' corner insisted they thought Earnie deserved to win - based on their scores, apparently.

Some corners (and sadly fighters) are simply too stupid to ever win the championship.
:-(

 

It's funny you mention Galindez.

When Ali regained the title from Spinks in New Orleans, and Mike Rossman won the title from Galindez on the undercard, Bob Arum seriously tried to convince Ali to defend his title against Rossman ... and Arum wanted to promote it as "the Muslim vs. the Jew" confrontation. :roll:atsch

I kid you not.

 

Yea Ali was done after Frazier 3, past it against Foreman really despite the quality of the win.