John Ruiz, a heavyweight legend.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Longhhorn71, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    I agree that Louis stops him and think rounds 7-9 is a solid pick, however, I think Ruiz would win his share of rounds.

    Jimmy Braddock out of the game 2 years, and not very skilled won two rounds vs Louis before being stopped. Ruiz is a ****roach, but he had more skill than Braddock, or if you prefer his method of boxing enabled him to win more rounds.
     
  2. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2004
    Messages:
    31,027
    Likes Received:
    38,047
    Surely you meant to say Ruiz regularly fought the best available opposition.

    Carl Williams (fought for HW title)
    David Tua (I didn't say he BEAT the best opposition)
    Tony Tucker (went 12 with a prime Tyson)
    Evander Holyfield, 3 times! (you Classic guys going to call EH a bum?)
    Roy Jones Jr (again, didn't say he BEAT the best opposition)
    Hasin Rahman (one punch KO vs Lennox Lewis....another bum, right?)
    Andrew Golota (a whacko, but a big dangerous whacko)
    Ruslan Chagaev (fought for HW title)
    Nikolay Valuev (HW champ)
    David Haye (CW champ....fought for HW title).

    Ruiz was awful to watch...like watching paint dry...or a round of golf....but he did fight (and beat) many top ten boxers). And the press never called his opposition "the Bum of the Month Club".

    Louis surely defeats Ruiz in a 12 RD snoozefest.
     
  3. jc

    jc Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    13,968
    Likes Received:
    14
    A solid top 10 heavy in his day, Nothing more.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    65,717
    Likes Received:
    52,796
    This is the kinda **** that annoys me in this forum.

    Ruiz came back from one of the most devastating KO's in heavyweight history to change his style and approach and fashion a championship career. He beat quality opponents in Tucker, Holy, Thunder, Johnson, Rahman, Oquendo and Golota. Were some of these guys old? Sure, were Marciano's best victims? Were some of these fights close? Sure, Ali-Norton III? Did Ruiz benefit from his relation with King? Did Dempsey benefit from Rickard? Did Bowe benefit from Newman?

    Anyone who has hung out with pros and seen the sweat and tears that go into a career, and the insane odds of actually succeeding, doesn't call out pros, let alone champs, as bums. It shows a profound lack of understanding of the sport.
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    82,092
    Likes Received:
    22,234
    No I actually meant to say Louis.

    Ruiz is very underrated he's like a prototype of the success story that was Wlad. Bombed out early doors, adjusted his style to a somewhat unbeatable tactic. He just wasn't quite quick enough or big enough to make it work as Wlad did.

    I don't understand the Ruiz hate. He tried to fight Lewis and Tyson and he damn near fought everyone else.
     
  6. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    43,958
    Likes Received:
    13,327
    Good post. Irritating and tiresome how some fighters become punch lines.
     
  7. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Messages:
    10,925
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    I still wonder how Ruiz was able to as much as he did with such limited talent. I chalk it up to him, for some reason unknown to me, being taken under the wing of Don King and being extremely shrewdly matched. If you had told me after David Tua wiped the floor with him that Tua would never win a world title and Ruiz would, I would have told you you were bat **** crazy.
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    65,717
    Likes Received:
    52,796
    He was a very talented high school athlete, a winning distance runner and marathoner, starting power forward on his high school basketball team and an all-conference linebacker. Not exactly a schlub.
     
  9. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Messages:
    10,925
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    ...which doesn't say anything about his actual boxing talent.
     
  10. Curtis Lowe

    Curtis Lowe Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    People seem to forget that after the Tua fight Ruiz went on to have a much more successful career that Tua can only dream about.
     
  11. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Messages:
    10,925
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    Citing just the names of top guys he fought doesn't cut it

    It's all about context. Holyfield, Tucker were shot or close to shot. And Holyfield beat him in one out of three fights.

    The Carl Williams he fought wasn't the Carl Williams who fought Holmes. The Williams you found on boxrec. was some Cruiserweight club fighter. LOL.

    Golota was way past peak, and still some people thought he won. Rahmann was past it, and was never that great, except for the one shot ko of Lewis. Jones, Toney, Tua easily beat John. Haye, Valuev, Chagaev beat him. And the last three aforementioned guys were alphabet champs in a weak era.

    He also lost to Dannell Nicholson who never developed into a contender.

    That a shot Holyfield was still competing near the top of the division when he fought Ruiz shows how weak era it was.
     
  12. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Messages:
    10,925
    Likes Received:
    6,802
    Some of that has to do with matchmaking/management.

    Ruiz greatly benefited from his relationship with Don King

    Tua stuck with main events and was forced to fight high quality competition. Tua was losing decisions to very high, quality competition like Byrd, Ike Iwebuchi and Lennox Lewis, while Ruiz was carefully matched by Don King.

    It's all about context.
     
  13. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2005
    Messages:
    32,032
    Likes Received:
    3,336
    While I agree with you that top level fighters should not be called "bums," it is also true that the manner in which Ruiz "beat" these "quality opponents" needs to be more clearly examined. In EVERY fight he "won" against world class opposition, he BLATANTLY violated the rules against excessive holding. That's cheating, pure and simple.

    Even worse, on at least THREE occasions - against Jimmy Thunder, Evander Holyfield in their second fight, and against Kirk Johnson - Ruiz BLATANTLY faked "low blows" to either get a undeserved point deduction (Thunder), avoid getting counted out when knocked down (Holyfield), or force a bogus DQ (Johnson).

    He did this because he didn't have the skill to beat these opponents WITHIN the rules - or in honorable manner, in the case of the ham-acting to get low blow calls - and his connections with King allowed him to REPEATEDLY get away with it. This is a bit different that whatever gains Dempsey may have gotten from Rickard. As far as Bowe, I think his career was actually harmed by his connection with Newman, frankly.

    Ruiz also received a horrendous gift decision against Golota in a fight in which he was on the canvas twice, got a point deduction, and landed LESS punches.:patsch And he got a bogus draw in the third Holyfield fight, in a fight Evander should have gotten the nod in.

    People who just look at Ruiz's list of opponents assume that he was really any good are missing the cheating, fraud and corruption that made his rise from the ash-heap after getting starched by Tua possible.

    Without King, Ruiz would have been a regional beltholder (NABF, etc.) at best. If that. He had all the boxing ability of a high-grade clubfighter - and without the illegal tactics, low blow fakery, and King-driven gift decisions, he doesn't beat ANY "quality opponents."
     
  14. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    74,772
    Likes Received:
    42,212
    It always amazes me that no matter how many times this kind of thing is said on here that there are still people who refuse to accept the truth about John Ruiz. He is a textbook example of a boxing fraud in every sense of the word.

    I really don't think there's a better example at any point ever, even Wilder isn't as much of a fraud as Ruiz was.... At least not yet, he may have faced horrible opposition on the way up, and practically handed a belt but Ruiz did that and then some!

    Ruiz sure has Wilder beat right now as far as blatant cheating, and being a beneficiary of gift decisions goes!
     
  15. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    6,203
    Likes Received:
    93

    That's an overstatement. Tua went on to beat Rahman, Oqurndo, Moorer, Maskaev, Izon, Wilson (when he was relevant) and Cameroon (when he was relevant). And the war with Ike that I thought he won. It's in the same class as Ruiz's resume.