So Mayweather is essentially retired...

But people don't hold it against Duran. Even though Duran ended up being big enough to compete with other middleweights, even Hagler himself. Not so with JMM.

 

People thought Mayweather was already small for super lightweight when he came up. He started at junior lightweight and had to adopt a modern strength training regimen to compete effectively at welterweight, and even then was still small for the weight historically.

 

I hope he is retired and stays retired. If he keeps fighting, eventually, a sad Roy Jones type ko loss will occur, forever tarnishing his well earned legacy.

 

I know you fancy yourself a premier boxing historian, but this post is way too black and white, and lazy, too boot. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

You know, if you want to stop embarrassing yourself ... don't even type the words Haugen, McGirt and Vazquez when you're trying to find fighters that are supposedly better than all the Hall of Famers Mayweather has beaten.

McGirt, Haugen and Vazquez (for the love of God) are in NO WAY remotely comparable to any of the top names Mayweather beat. Forget about being better than they were.

And Chavez was terrible at welteweight, not just in the Whitaker fight. He got stopped by De La Hoya and beaten by Willie Wise at welterweight, for God's sake. That was hardly "his" prime weight. He only fought Whitaker there for the payday and went right back down.

And that's Pernell's BIG WIN (or draw) that trumps all others of Floyd's wins?

And all the Juan Nazarios and Vazquezs and McGirts don't add up to wins over Alvarez, Cotto, Pacquiao, De La Hoya, Mosley, Hatton, Marquez, Corrales, Hernandez ...

Hell, the second-tier names Floyd Mayweather beat - like Judah, Maidana, Castillo, Berto ... were on par with most of the "names" (the McGirts, Wilfredo Riveras, Greg Haugens, Anthony Jones') Whitaker usually fought.

You'd better stick to "Whitaker moved his head better defensively" ... because in every other category, there's really no comparison. And even in that one, I don't recall a fight where Mayweather ever got lumped up. But I can recall a few from Pernell.

Seriously.

When Mayweather was 36, he was beating the current lineal middleweight champ Canelo Alvarez.

When Whitaker was that age, he was quitting after a couple rounds against a clubfighter on cable.

Let it go.

Whoever rated Whitaker over Mayweather YEARS ago will certainly have changed their tunes by now.

 

I don't count it for much. For starters how old was JMM, 36?

What was the reach/size difference?

How many times did JMM fight at WW? (Answer 0)

Floyd never even made the catchweight limit of 144 for that fight , so what exactly is there to count?

Hell, even Duran fight a few times at 147 before taking on SRL.

I rate Mayweather pretty high, but it's certainly not because of this fight.

 

I don't rate him highly BECAUSE of that fight, either.

I was answering it as part of a conversation comparing Mayweather with Whitaker ...

For instance, how many times did Azumah Nelson fight at lightweight before he fought Whitaker? ZERO.

How many times did Azumah EVER fight at lightweight?

Like TWO. The first being against Whitaker.

And the guy we were arguing with said Nelson was one of Whitaker's TWO best wins. The other being Chavez, who also moved up for that one fight, and Pernell didn't even officially win.

Those two fights on Whitaker's resume -- according to that guy - are supposed to be better than any wins Mayweather's ever had.

It's nonsense. That's the only reason I commented. I don't consider Marquez one of Mayweather's TWO BEST WINS.

But if the win over Azumah Nelson was considered one of the biggest ever for Pernell, and that win over Nelson puts him WAY ABOVE MAYWEATHER all-time ... I don't see why beating Marquez should be entirely dismissed.

Marquez wasn't a joke when he moved up. He was considered to be one of the best fighters in the world and the lightweight champion. And three years later, he move up again and wasted Pacquiao.

Nelson never moved up to Lightweight and wasted anyone. He never won a fight of note there.

 

We're pretty much on the same page. I don't think Marquez was/is ever a joke, but WW just wasn't his weight, he was too small and didn't have the attributes necessary to make a splash in that division. (Funny thing is he's about the same size as Duran, who did make a pretty big splash in that division, given his similar attributes in terms of size.) But Duran is Duran.

 

I agree.

 

You're only looking at the names. If Floyd beat Mosley, Oscar, Pacquiao, Marquez in their prime at their prime weights you'd be talking about a different resume altogether. But Mayweather doesn't have a single win over a prime or near-prime ATG on his record.

Chavez however was damn close enough even if he was better at lightweight. That Chavez had beaten up Hector Camacho at 140 the previous year. His skills were preserved and he pressed Whitaker and used his trademark bobbing and weaving. No way was he as far gone as Floyd's top named opponents.

Lol @ you implying Canelo as current MW champ is the same Canelo that Floyd beat. I hate when people exaggerate wins over fighters who later go on to do big things when they improve significantly. Canelo was the guy good enough to squeak past Trout, that's it.

Maidana and Berto on par with McGirt? McGirt is going to be a hall of famer you fool. Nelson is already there. And you sit here acting like I'm the one that should be embarrassed.

Have they changed their tune? Why don't you make a poll? Why don't you see other lists? You'll see plenty have Whitaker above.

 

No, his dimensions were not super small for the weight, and no, he did not adopt a dramatically different strength training regimen to gain mass.

 

Floyd did everything better, yet only did slightly better against an old DLH than old Whitaker did against a prime DLH...lol

 

I agree but he outgrew his weight class mostly for all the wrong reasons. He started off at 118 and I think he was about 168 when he retired. But I agree with what you're saying but it also forced him to fight far bigger guys than would have been the case if he was as dedicated as Mayweather and Pac were, he likely would have remained at 154 until his mid to late 40's rather than going first to 160 and then to 168.

But I'm not one to talk considering I started off at 143 and now I'm about 190, that's what 30 years of time can do to you. lol

 

You mad?

 

He knocked out pfp number 1 Pac and deserved the decision in the other fight. He's not far off of Duran there.