Tyson V Marciano's Challengers?

Then I am misunderstanding you, McVey.

 

Maybe you need to work on your elucidation skills

 

There's nothing wrong with being a fan of Marciano. He's a man's man, who gave everything when he fought. Nobody claims he was invincible ... even though he was unbeaten in his career.

I think your post was a little unclear. But I think I see what you mean now.

 

Lighter...not 30 lbs. lighter...and much taller.

Orlin Norris KO1
Buster Mathis KO3
Lorenzo Boyd KO2
Jesse Fergusson KO6
Marvis Frazier KO1
Alfonso Ratliff KO2
Michael Spinks KO1
Henry Tillman KO1

Short guys/ Skinny guys were dead against Mike. They wouldn't even put him in with a 185lb.er.

 

you did. You said it seems pretty obvious why a short man would have more trouble with 6'5", 230 pounds, 82" reach and you listed the stats like that is all it would take.

I have not ignored size and physical attributes at all. Not one bit.

I directly asked "was Tucker even that physical with Tyson?" And that "he kept it to boxing with Tyson". All that reach and height and Tucker boxed. I directly used the comparison of Charles boxing inside with Marciano, turning him within a clinch. Counter parry, feinting etc. He was keeping it to boxing too just like Tucker, and the strategy Ezzard used negated strength within a clinch too.

But in truth Tyson didn't have more trouble with 6'5" 82" 230lb men than shorter more skilled men did he? 6'1" Tillis grave Tyson more trouble than 6'5" Williams. Evander Hollyfeild gave Tyson more trouble than 6'5" Lou Savaresse.

Tyson loved a long low jab from a tall guy punching down. He wanted a jab. Tyson was programmed to slide in against the jabs to attack at an angle.

A big misconception was that it was Douglas' great jab that undid Tyson. No. It was the stutter step and feint that opened Tyson for the jab. Shorter guys can do this too.

 

Tillis at 6'1" 76" 207 not that much bigger than Walcott.

Norris was a no contest, he was doing ok and tried to draw a dq when Tyson hit him after the bell.


No, because of the failed cruiser division experiment. Tyson did fight former cruisers, and two I mentioned did very well.

However..

Walcott, Moore, and Charles got in the ring with 30 pound heavier men quite a bit.

 

And you interpret that to mean ""this guy can't win because the tape measure says this and the scales say that"?? This is a common strawman argument that people like to trot out on this forum. At no point did I suggest that big fighters will always beat much smaller ones.

The notion that "using one's size" necessarily entails fighting "physical" is a huge misconception. To the contrary, bigger heavyweights who know how to use their size often do so by: (1) controlling the range and the distance of the fight; and (2) using their body mass to hold their opponents and suppress their infighting at strategic moments.

This is false and revisionist. It was the combination of Douglas' size, jab, and ability to control the distance that won him the fight. And you have it completely backward-- the feints worked because he was able to establish his jab, not vice versa (otherwise Tyson would have run right through his feints).

 

I think Tyson's body weight combined with his speed would give him a great advantage against Charles.
The thing with body weight is it has an impact even when the fighters are doing very little. Against Marciano, Charles was up against a strong opponent, but they weighed about the same so there's wasn't that aspect of being worn down and driven back by sheer weight.
I don't believe Tyson was necessarily a harder puncher or stronger than Marciano, but he was heavier so he'd make more of an impact. He also had quicker hands, so Charles has less advantages.
Therefore, I think Tyson wins this easier than Marciano did.

 

That's a perfectly sensible statement. That's not superhuman ability, that's just what happens when a punch is landed flush with perfect timing from someone who delivers with full force.
Of course, it's unusual and difficult for a fighter to land such a punch, but Marciano's a good candidate to do it, and in fact did such things.