So Mayweather is essentially retired...

You say McGirt is a poor win because he has a rotator cuff injury, then you claim Manny as a great win... yet HE also had the same injury!

Can't have it both ways, buddy.

 

I'm not having it both ways. Earlier in the thread, people were talking about the Pacquiao win not counting either because he was hurt. Pacquiao didn't have a torn rotator cuff ripped off the bone.

McGirt's was separated from his shoulder.

And on what planet was Buddy McGirt considered a top pound-for-pound fighter? Was it when he got his head beat in by Meldrick Taylor?

McGirt was the definition of a C-level fighter. He's not CLOSE to being a Hall of Famer. He retired almost 20 years ago and he's not even on the ballot.

Pacquiao was 10 times the fighter Buddy McGirt was. (Or do you want to make a thread and argue that, too?)

If Mayweather's win over Pacquaio is just dismissed, then how the hell can someone, in the next breath, say Buddy McGirt is another great Whitaker win?

Who the hell did McGirt beat that freaking Shawn Porter couldn't beat?

McGirt wasn't anyone special, for God's sake.

Shawn Porter = Buddy McGirt.

 

And don't get me started on Julio Cesar Vazquez.

Can you imagine if Floyd Mayweather's big wins were over Chavez moving up in weight, Nelson moving up in weight ... and then Julio Cesar Vazquez, Greg Haugen, Buddy McGirt. Juan NAzario.

And if an old Mayweather had quit against a bum on Cable because his arm hurt.

Jesus Christ.

And can you imagine if Whitaker went undefeated and beat Cotto, Alvarez, De La Hoya, Mosley, Pacquiao, Marquez, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Gatti, Maidana, Hernandez ...

And then I chimed in saying ... "Well, beating Buddy McGirt was better than beating Pacquiao. And Cotto and Canelo are C-Level. But Greg Haugen ... now there's a champ."

Mayweather is better than Whitaker. Beat better fighters. Had a better career. Was more dominant. Didn't quit. Was 1,000 times more well known and relevant.

He was better than Whitaker.

DONE.

 

Be specific please. Who on that list didn't beat any ATG's?

He was the number 1 welterweight in 1993 when Whitaker beat him. To clear any doubts about the shoulder they had a rematch and Whitaker beat him then too.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-02/sports/sp-45746_1_pernell-whitaker

"He was the better man, he did what he had to do," McGirt said. "My arm was OK, he was definitely the better man."

 

I think you're selling him just a little short. He was pfp in 91 (7) and 92 (5). The Simon Brown win was good.

I don't know the extent of his injury, but Whitaker did beat him twice in similar fashion. He was maybe a little better than Judah and a little worse than Cotto.

 

Was McGirt the number-one welterweight then?

YES, out of his fellow champs Gert Bo Jacobsen, Crisanto Espana, and Maurice Blocker, McGirt was the best of those four.

AND EVERY welterweight champ today would be rated higher than them, too. (C'mon. Gert Bo Jacobsen? Crisanto Espana?)

That was NO STELLAR welterweight division Whitaker was entering.

Does that make McGirt an Hall of Famer to you? Because he was considered better than Gert Bo Jacobsen?

Instead of arguing, the question is simple.

If you took Pernell Whitaker ... and gave him all of Floyd's career and results ... undefeated in 49 fights. Wins over Cotto, Alvarez, Pacquiao, De La Hoya, Mosley, Marquez, Corrales, Hernandez, Hatton, Maidana, Gatti, Judah, Castillo and on and on ... never floored, never needed to come from behind to win, richest athlete in all of sports. A household name. Titles from 130 to 154.

And you gave Mayweather Whitaker's career ... wins over McGirt, Vazquez, Haugen, Nelson and Chavez moving up and going right back down because it wasn't either of their weight classes when they fought him, Nazario ... losing to Trinidad, Bojorquez ...


WOULD YOU RATE Floyd over Whitaker (if Floyd had Pernell's career and vice versa)?

If the answer is YES, Pernell's ring accomplishments were so much better .... that I'd rate Floyd higher if he had Pernell's career ... then you're right.

If the answer is N0, I'm right.

And I'd love to see a show of hands of everyone who thinks beating Haugen, Vazquez, etc. and losing to Bojorquez ... is better and deserves a higher rating than Mayweather's career wins and accomplishments.

Because Mayweather's opponents, his wins, and his success in the ring (and out) blows Whitaker out of the water.

It's as clear as the nose on your face if you put your biases aside.

 

The 4 ATG's Floyd fought were past prime. And three were bloated and pm way past their natural weight class.

 

Which prime ATGs did Pernell beat in their best divisions?

It sure as hell wasn't Nelson at lightweight and Chavez at welterweight.

 

Pernell is an overrated fighter. I won't argue that he's as great as people say he is.

 

I'm not arguing that Pernell Whitaker is great.

I'm arguing with TWO GUYS who rate Pernell higher than Floyd Mayweather all time.

I'm saying, wherever you rate Whitaker, put Floyd at least one spot ahead of him ... because Floyd beat better fighters, had a better career, a better record, better accomplishments ... and would beat Whitaker.

You're talking to the wrong guy.

 

Cotto was at a solid point in his career and younger than Floyd.

Corrales was a borderline ATG. Top 5 pfp champ at the time of their fight, ended up a two division champ with wins over Robert Garcia, Gainer, Castillo, Freitas--all in devastating fashion--and a decision over Casamayor. It's really solid stuff.

 

Mayweather would never have to be the aggressor against someone as limited as Pac. That is because he has a fighting brain. Paciow doesn't. He would just lunge in off balance like he did when they actually fought and get hit with right hand leads.

The fight would always be as boring as it WAS at ANYTIME they had fought because Paciow is f&&&ing clueless when it comes to dealing with a guy who is quite happy to sit back and counter him to the point of embarrassment.

One is pure class in the ring, and the other idiot just relied on fitness and work rate. No contest. When you are as easy to get picked off as the Filipino you have got less chance than a cat in hell of beating Mayweather.

Simple as that.

 

Cotto I don't think is an ATG. Corrales isn't generally thought of as an ATG.

 

Oh okay. You were counting Mosley.