Prime Marciano V Tysons Challengers?

But you seem to want to argue that Marciano would be too small to even compete with 1980s heavyweights. I'm only pointing out that another far less talented fighter of Rockys stature did compete with them. Why not Rocky?

Rocky fares just as well as Tyson did against the same guys. This is because Rocky was more consistent and he beat better challengers than Tyson did. Proberbly even as he was.

 

We spot guys 10 to 20 pounds anyway in non heavyweight fantasy fights.

Nobody brings up that modern day lower division fighters are 10 to as much as 25 pounds heavier on fight night, and use that to pick them over legends.

Would anyone pick Chavez Jr over Hagler? And cite Chavez would have a 20 to 30 pound advantage? Is Hagler no longer a H2H terror at middle only being given a shot at modern welters?

 

Good point.:good

 

Apples and oranges-- you're comparing food/water weight to muscle and bone weight.

In any event, this stuff gets exaggerated. Plenty of fighters cut weight back in the day and then gorged themselves/hydrated themselves as soon as they hopped off the scale (some quality Duran stories on this). Fighters from back in the day would have been heavier with an extra 24 hours of food and water in them too. Acknowledging this is very different than speculating about them putting on 15-20 pounds of muscle mass. And from what I understand, today's fighters often do the informal same-day weighins while wearing shoes and workout suits, further exaggerating the difference.

 

Nobody said he couldn't compete--we just don't think he would dominate. As I'm sure you know full and well, styles make fights. Norris was able to overchieve and compete against talented larger men (but lets not exaggerate here) because he was a much slicker, craftier fighter than Marciano and far more talented defensively.

I disagree either way but to be clear are you just saying that he beats all of the guys Tyson beat or that he does so in such dominant fashion?

 

...

 

I've said how I thinks he does.

I think he goes unbeaten until running into Holyfield after 10 defences.

 

To be fair most people consider whether it's a same day weigh in or a 24 hour weigh in, or at least I do anyways.

For instance I think 24 hour weigh in Jones Jr is a goat MW, same day, not as convinced.

To answer your question though, to some degree people do stop becoming h2h monsters in the weight class. Take McGovern at FW. He was already small for his weight and had a very rudimentary brawling style. Despite him.once being in contention for goat FW, could anyone seriously pick him to defeat Lomachenko today?

My point remains, I just think Rocky would always be a small HW, never a big LHW.

 

Lol...nobody is just muscle and bone. They carried water than too.

It's the same.

Every weight class is 10 to 20+ pounds heavier on the average today.

Hagler coming in under 160 or a little over is what Welters weigh today.

And your average middle weight is well over 170 on fight night.

But this gets ignored.

 

Or maybe a small cruiserweight? :think

 

I wouldn't say most people do. It's just something that gets overlooked in lower weight classes but is magnified in heavyweight fantasy fights lately.

Ha, that depends. Some great historical light heavies could make middle with 24 hour weigh in and challenge Jones.

And historically same day weigh ins, Jones could find himself against light heavies or heavies. In the 30s and 40s, Jones could find himself in the ring with guys like Simon, Baer, and Louis.

Depends on how you look at it. I think most just choose to ignore the rehydration aspect and pretend modern Middles come in at 160, same as the historical ones. But we know that's not true.

I do as well. One thing is for sure, he wouldn't be a 185 pound cruiser weight. There are no 185 pound cruisers today. He would either bulk up to Heavy or cut to Light Heavy and rehydrate to 185 or so.

 

Never.

Not in an era where there have been heavyweights just as short as Rocky.