With all due respect "styles make fights" is a cop out. Exceptional fighters in their prime can be an exception to the rule. This is greatness here we are talking about. Taking bonecrusher Smith over Marciano is as silly as taking Chavez jnr over Marvin Hagler. Certain challengers, with hindsight, that Tyson had just should not have been in the ring the night they fought him. Tubbs, Spinks and Holmes had nothing to offer any champion on those nights. So I feel Rocky wipes them out too just as 90% of all prime champions would on those nights. The others would all be tougher for Rocky to beat because he tended to have a tough fight with most top level guys trying to win, but Rocky at 189 still beats them, he's too good to lose to Tyrell Biggs and Tony Tucker for goodness sake.
Why wouldn't he bulk up and try to become a 195/199-lb cruiserweight? That way he would still have strength and power advantages over most of his opponents without having to kill himself to make 175?
Do you think Tyson could have drained to a 200 pound weigh in 24 hours before facing Berbick? I always consider era and effect draining has. Totally agree with the last point. The idea of a 5 foot 11 man weighing 180 terrorising the division is long gone. Byrd, Holy, Toney, Moorer all very small HW fighters based on early career weights but all felt the need to add muscle to compete in the modern division. Rocky would be the same imo.
No, with all due respect, "exceptional fighters are exceptions to virtually every rule of boxing and physics" is the biggest copout of all. Tends to be used by people who prefer simplistic, hierarchical thinking about the sport instead of dealing with the complexities (not accusing you of that so no offense).
Jones was 180+ in his Light Heavyweight Days. If he weighed that much in the 30s and 40s, he would have to compete at heavyweight. Possible he could cut down to Light Heavyweight, but even than, most Light Heavyweights in those days regularly had to mix it up with heavies. He would be in a similar position as fighters like Bivins, Maxim, Charles, Loughran..etc.
Most of the guys at cruiser today are draining down from 210 and 215. Tyson probably could, but why would he want to if he was in position to dominate the more lucrative division at the time? It's all about opportunities these days. We had guys like Cunningham and Huck both about 6'2+, 80" wing spans, coming in at 210-215 on fight night. They could easily fight Heavyweight for most of their career. But they would just lose to Wlad or Vitali, one or two big pays and than career limbo. But unlike the 220+ pounds guys they have other options, they could drain, and compete for titles in the Cruiser division. And even than, so many weight divisions today are dominated by smaller men who are just bulking up, because they decided their current division didn't have opportunities. Just look at Cotto. He couldn't beat Pacman, but he could sure bulk up and beat Yuri Foreman. He couldn't beat Mayweather, well he can bulk up and beat Martinez.
Optimum weight changes each era as training changes. For this reason Marciano would absolutely be relevent as a heavyweight in any era where other men under 6 feet tall have had success.
Totally agree. I can't see Rocky settling for life in CW limbo. I'm confident he'd add a stone of muscle and be quicker than most of the behemoths which negates his main weakness. His big issue is rule set. No matter how great Rocky is, if Wlad is allowed to lean and clinch he will barely win a second of the fight. He would have to rely on a SHW who does mix it up inside, which Fury has shown a tendency to do. So I wouldn't at all be surprised if Rocky could we world champion today. I would be surprised any time in the last decade.
I can't disagree with any of this. You don't see any fighters shooting for an optimum weight in the 180s anymore outside of Light Heavies. Which curiously the last 5 lineal Champions of the LHW (Hopkins, Calzaghe, Pascal, Dawson, Stevenson)were previous middles and super middles who either aged or bulked up to that weight. All these LHWs just visibily strike me as smaller men than Marciano, bulked up or aged to that weight. Rocky would likely head for Heavy.
Jones Jr was 193 against Ruiz and that was a game plan relying solely on speed and movement so I can imagine how the extra bulk would hinder him. When you look at 5 foot 11 power punching ko artists, we have Tyson and Tua both built like tanks and never considered too small in their day. Tyson was seen as unbeatable. Tua lost to Lewis but was seen as lazy and unfit rather than too small. I'm convinced if Rocky was weighing 205-210 people wouldn't be dismissing him as too small, they'd be discussing stylistic points in predictions. Either way I just can't picture him as a LHW, he didn't look the smaller man compared to Charles and Walcott despite big shorter and outweighed. He could definitely hold a stone of muscle.
Name me the powerpunching heavyweight under 6 feet who was as slow as Rocky and flourished in the 80's and beyond.
Why on earth would anyone think Marciano is slow? You don't hit on guys like Walcott or Charles without having at least decent hand speed. Those two guys were just as fast probably faster than any of the 1980's heavies.