So Mayweather is essentially retired...

You've already established Saddler's greatness. Pep is a top 20 ATG.

Emile Griffith beat undefeated awkward contender Gypsy Joe Harris, HOF fighter Nino Benvenuti, HOF fighter **** Tiger twice (who beat Hurricane Carter and Gene Fullmer, who beat Sugar Ray Robinson), the legendary MW Bennie Briscoe from Philly, undefeated Cuban champion Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Cuban welterweight champion Benny Paret twice, champion Denny Moyer (who also beat Sugar Ray Robinson). All of these men were in their primes, at a time when there was one champion per weight class.

It sounds like you just never heard of him.

Jones beat ATG Toney when he was P4P#1, ATG Hopkins when they were both atop the division, historically solid champions Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, Tarver when Jones was past his prime, took the 0's of fighters Harding and Kelly when they were ranked #1 by the IBF, beat Woods when he was #1 by the WBC, and became the first man in 100 years to hold both Middleweight and Heavyweight titles when he beat John Ruiz. So, yeah. There's all that. He might have lost like 6 rounds between all those wins as well.

 

If you think Pacquiao's historic success was because of "fitness and work rate" you need to find another sport Holy **** that was dumb.

 

Well Pacquiao's stamina was his number 1 attribute and his greatest strength in the ring.

But yea, that was oversimplifying it. He was way more than a high stamina fighter.

 

I'd say his footwork was. Sure stamina helped him a lot, but when that started to fade late in his career, and his power wasn't as effective, he showed he was still a world class fighter with his quickness and skillset.

 

Fitness and work rate?

 

Thanks for this!! It ****es me off that Emile Griffith is either remembered today because of the gay issue or the 3rd Benny Paret fight....he had many fine victories,....one truly great victory in my humble opinion....that being his title win vs **** Tiger in 1966...all the way from welterweight to middle,...10 lbs lighter than Tiger, winning the title in a brilliant performance...decking the Tiger man for the 1st time in his career in the process. All the wins Bogo mentions were substantial, yet sadly overlooked or underestimated for some reason by superficial, ignorant, modern day fruit-fly noobies. It might be mentioned in addition, that the 3rd Griffith-Benvenuti bout (the one that apparently wasn't filmed and nobody has seen) was extremely close, and probably went to Nino on the basis of a 9th round knockdown. From what I know of the fight at that time,...and it was on the same bill as Frazier-Mathis, the fight could have just as easily have gone to Griffith, as he finished the bout much stronger than Nino and had him "hanging on" according to reports of the bout. Griffith actually improved as a fighter after moving to middleweight...becoming a savvy, accomplished technician along the way, to compensate for his reluctance to indulge his killer instinct anymore, following that Paret tragedy.

 

I rank him the following, at present.

ATG: 20
WW: 8
LW: 6
SFW: 1

 

Please be more concise in your posts. So much waffle.

Chavez had fought at that weight several times. Chavez was in good condition for the fight. Eye-test.
Nelson was the guy with the smaller frame, and stylistically disadvantaged. Nevertheless, it was a comprehensive masterclass against an ATG who was in great condition for the fight.
McGirt certainly is better than Cotto. McGirt fought him twice, and he didn't have shoulder problems when they fought. McGirt, again, is a HOF'er in terms of H2H ability.

I've already addressed the guys you listed. The ATG's were past prime-to-semi shot, or in the case of Marquez, in terrible condition. This cannot be denied. Hence they were not great wins in any way.

Julio Cesar Vazquez IS a tougher fight than any of those guys out of Cotto, Oscar and the heavily stylistically disadvantaged Alvarez. You don't know anything about JCV, just be honest. I would also say that the fight was closer than the scorecards show.

You are the only guy who holds the view that Mayweather fought better guys than Whitaker. You should honestly learn about the sport, there's guys that'll make you enjoy boxing far more than Mayweather.

As for Whitaker's fights against Rivera etc. He was not in a good condition for those fights, he started to slide. As you conveniently kept silent on...when Whitaker was as past prime as Mayweather is today, Whitaker was busy having a completely even fight with an ATG in his prime Oscar De La Hoya, whilst Mayweather was having an even fight with Marcos Maidana. Whitaker was motivated for that fight, as he was saying before the fight.

Ring age > Age. Remember that.

 

I don't know. Ask Mayweather why he very frequently used his injured shoulder in his first fight with Castillo, which most people had him losing.

 

:roll: Is this Tiliang?

 

You should take the time to learn about boxing history and the conditions in which they fought. They'd take fights on a fortnight or even weekly basis. They carry injuries into fights, they want the paycheck, they most often chose to get paid more in a pro fight than spar. Can we say Floyd Mayweather got his ass whooped by Paul Spadafora and Erik Morales?
Can we say Guillermo Rigondeaux has a loss after getting beaten badly by a 17 year old Mexican boxer from the Wildcard gym?

Who did Emile Griffith beat? His resume is absolutely stacked, there's at or near prime ATG wins (something which cannot be said of Mayweather).

 

:rofl

 

:deal Preach!

 

They did, and continue to do so to this day. There are many times when ringside observers have collectively been so off.

 

Thanks. I think Bradley's more polished work at closer range vs Brandon was definitely a big asset that he was missing. It is definitely going to have an effect in the next fight. I'm so used to seeing him unnecessarily take big blows...a testament to his heart though.

Great video. :good