So Mayweather is essentially retired...

You claim bias yet can't debate a single point? No Mayweather hasn't solely fought smaller past prime opponents, many of his top wins like Castillo, Corrales, Alvarez, Judah and Hatton were prime and Cotto near enough. And for his past prime opponents he's been in his 30s and late 30s himself for those bouts.

Floyd fought many bigger opponents Monzon never did.

Which one of these names do you want to debate me on because I have far more knowledge of them than you.

Seriously you didn't even mention Charles Burley in your list so don't think you can drop knowledge with me. FFS you even forgot Ross, even though he isn't as good you could at least try to make an argument.

Really does he have better wins? Duran who started at 135 and was 5 inches shorter? Benitez who's best win was Old Duran or Virgil Hill who's best win was.........???? Or Cuevas who beat no one and wasn't lineal?

If you're going by top 5-6 wins Sugar Ray Leonard is number 1 and Ray Robinson isn't top 20. Most of the names you quoted aren't top 20.

BTW if you have Joe Frazier in your top 30 P4P where the **** is Schmelling, Buster Douglas, Hasim Rahman and Corrie Sanders?

 

Top 25 or so all time.
Top 10-15 at WW
Top 10 at JMW
Top 3 at JLW.

 

Of course I can debate single points, but as you say, I have things to do so I must be brief so I can't do a resume comparison of the 18 fighters you mentioned at the moment. I never said Mayweather Solely fought old fighters so you can get rid of that strawman.

A prime Rocky Valdez is better than the versions of most fighters Floyd beat, for example.

Doubt that, since you're calling Universal top 20 ATG's "laughable".

Burley is a great name. It was off the top of my head, not an exhaustive list. There are names I might take off and names I would add, as I mentioned. Read a bit closer. I could have added Zivic along with Moore. I'd probably subtract Foreman.

The fact you omit Cervantes, one of the best 140 pound fighters of all time and arguably an ATG himself, from Benitez's resume speaks volumes about your knowledge and your approach to valuing these old greats.

That old Duran is better than old Pacquiao and old Oscar. Look what Duran did against Moore and Barkley and Hagler at that age and weights

I'm not going by those wins alone, but if you don't have the depth to counter another fighter's 5-6 best wins, you're not greater. Floyd's depth wins out over most, but for me it takes a lot to overcome better wins. That's what greatness is about, having the best wins. All this talk about longevity, weight classes, that's just icing on the cake.

What a disengenuous argument. Frazier isn't necessarily top 30 (again, that list I posted wasn't an ordered top 30) but to compare him to Buster Douglas is pathetically disingenuous and you know that. Frazier nearly cleaned house in a golden age of heavyweights. Chavulo, Mathis, Bonavena, Quarry, Ellis, Foster Bugner. He missed out on Norton and Lyle. But still, that quality run is capped off by his win over Ali, one of the best wins in history. Not a fluke, an intense historical rivalry. So I won't hate on anyone that as Floyd above. But I will **** on someone who compares Frazier to Buster Douglas. In fact after that exchange I can see you're far too invested in Floyd's legacy on a personal level to merit consideration. Have fun putting Floyd in your top 10 list and disrespecting legends.

 

Ray Leonard's victory over Tommy Hearns would have probably meant more in a rematch at 154. When they fought, Hearns was used to dominating and never learned to clinch by then. Plus at 154 he filled out of his frame better. One of the best wins ever still, but at 154 it means more than 147. Duran probably near prime, very close to it. Epic win. His victory over Hagler is probably one of the most overrated wins though. Everybody saw that Hagler was war torn by that point. I'd reckon a lot of MW's throughout history defeat that Hagler. His Benitez win was also immaculate.

So yea he does have a set of great wins. That's why many put him in the top 10 ATG.

But since he only had 40 fights his greatness is diminished through depth.

Mayweather's best victories aren't enough to put him in the top 20 I would think.

 

Many of Monzon's critics argue he wasn't prime and Valdez wasn't that good either. Again this is a 1 division champion, how dominant would Mayweather be if he stayed at 130 his whole career?

They aren't universal and you should always look deeper into history. There are many smoke and mirrors throughout history, boxing and otherwise. Some you listed certainly are laughable.

I think you already named Moore but Zivic isn't really a great fighter, he beat Armstrong but Armstrong's management didn't really trust him against welterweights. Putting him in the top 30, just no.

Bro are you tired I was discussing Hearns resume who never faced Cervantes. Personally I don't consider Cervantes close to a great, he's too predictable.

No he isn't though. Moore and Barkley were the weak belt holders in their division. Duran and Hearns never faced McCallum, Kalambay, Nunn, Graham, Curry, Benn, Eubank all much better than the likes of Barkley and MOORE.

Why not mention how Old Duran got schooled by Laing?

Most of them don't have 5 better wins over Mayweather though if you put their resume under the microscope. Which you haven't bothered to do.

It was a fluke given it was a one off that he couldn't repeat against a past prime Ali and the rest of his wins aren't top class. And given he got absolutely demolished by a very raw Foreman.

Douglas is far more skilled than Frazier, it isn't close if you actually understand the fundamentals of boxing and he dominated Tyson, Frazier got battered for 6 rounds against Ali. Douglas is underrated because he didn't train for Holyfield, where as Frazier is overrated off beating 'the greatest' and then getting banged out by a crude banger.

Yes me talking about Buster Douglas in high esteem and never rating Frazier for years and years is all for the benefit of Floyd. Look up my years long posting if you want to check my sincerity.

Honestly you can't debate with me on any one fighter I don't rate over Floyd because 'you're too busy', come back when you're not busy sunshine.

It's not even a matter of rating Floyd over those fighters, I rate Kalambay, Toney and McCallum over most of those hypejobs too. Well done you've latched onto the hypejobs of the past instead of the current hypejob :yep Seriously you've listed some absolute gatekeepers on your list and it isn't just 1 or 2

 

I can't be bothered talking to someone who thinks Mayweather is greater than Pernell Whitaker, honestly. You're the one of the only people who think that.

 

What on earth is this woeful post?

 

He hasn't done anything to warrant a 20's position.

 

It went way above your head, disagree with any element of it if you can.

 

To what end? You have constructed long posts but it's hard to imagine you hold to the sentiments of your responses to Bogo. You resorted to many low depths i.e Buster Douglas being more skilled than Frazier, and clearly indicating Douglas being greater than Frazier

Am I right in my assumption that you're just trolling around? It should be stated however the level of scrutiny you are applying on these great fighters far exceeds that which we have been applying to Floyd.

Our criticisms of Floyd is very simple:
1. Floyd hasn't fought an at-or-near-prime ATG. Rather, of the very small number of greats in his resume, all were notably past prime and/or in relatively bad condition.

2. Floyd's resume mostly consists of 'good-to-ok' wins, and an underwhelming number of 'very good' wins.

3. Floyd has impressive longevity to be at the top level until age 38, but he only had 49 fights in 20 years, and benefits from the most advanced training, nutrition and PED’s..all with a defensive style which further lends to longevity.


If my assumption is right, that is a terrible trolling job. 0.8/10.

 

You and Bogotazo need to go and tell Mayweather, Marquez, a semi shot Morales and the 2 rickshaw drivers about Paciow's so called foot work and skillset. All of whom were quite happy to counter him to bits easily, before 3 of them stopped him.

 

This doesn't help the case of the Mayweather fangirl. All it emphasises is how semi-shot Pac was against Mayweather.

It's a shame tbh.

 

You seem to have failed reading comprehension aimed at the level of a 7 year old here and gone off on your own Mayweather obsessed tangent.

I asked which of my criticisms of the stated fighters you disagreed with. It's obviously going to go way over your pre nursery education level.

I was discussing the limited level of the fighters listed, not Mayweather himself.

Yes Joe Frazier had terrible defense, no jab and little right hand. His skills were severally limited. No trolling, if you don't understand that you've never boxed. Even Frazier knew that himself, he was left hook happy limited trier. He had a great left hook and loads of heart but if you think he's a skilled boxer you should get back to licking windows.

 

I'm honestly wondering if you're joking or if you really believe this stuff. It's simply atrocious line of logic you're using, it's almost blatantly ass backwards. You're criticizing others for not watching enough boxing, and I almost fell out of my chair laughing at the hypocrisy.

You laughed at a poster for listing Haugen as a legit win, and then, turn right around and list Mosley, ODLH, Alvarez as solid wins for May. LMAO. Simply atrocious. Mosley was so far past his prime it silly. That fight added next to nothing for Floyd's overall greatness. Same with DLH, way past his prime, weight drained... inactive... take your pick. He was no where near the fighter he once was. Which again, crushes your own argument. Easily so. Here's why:

Whitaker (in many eyes) beat a PRIME... are you familiar with that word Prime? He beat or almost beat a prime undefeated beast named Oscar. What did Floyd do, he got into a competitive fight with that same Oscar, only difference being, he was well past his prime (insert other factors listed above), and yet still gave him a good fight. Just by that standard Pea is ahead of Hoya. Alvarez LMAO... Please.... Green and not that good anyways. He's simply a decent fighter. Nothing more. He's better now, when he fought Floyd though, he was meh. Yet you listed these fights as key wins... LOL. right bud. Tell you what. Here's a challenge for you... You list the fight Floyd had that was comparable to the following wins for Pea

1. Chavez
2. Nelson
3. McGirt
4. Ramirez
5. Vasquez
6. Nazario
7. Hurtado
8. Brazier
9. Haugen
10. Rivera

Bonus: Being that we're naming fights... and others and I feel like Whitaker won anyways. Even still name me the prime beasts he faced that were comparable to

1. Oscar
2. Tito