Just watched Dempsey vs Carpentier in HD

Cheers.:good

 

Freddie Mills manager tonked Carpentier giving us Brits our honour back.
The orchid man only KO'd Lewis because the kid had asked the ref what the time was ??

 

What was so good about Beckett? His best win was over a fat bald ancient middleweight Eddie McGoorty. He went life and death being dropped multiple times by MW/LHW Boy McCormick and was stopped in two rounds by a shot Frank Moran who hadn't beaten anyone worth a damn in years and who would never win another fight. Winning by knockout over Joe Beckett was nothing to brag about or trumpet as a title fight worthy victory. Carpentier may not have been an awful fighter but that really isn't the point is it? He was never the best at any division he was ever in at any time and its arguable there were a good 20+ fights from multiple divisions who could have beaten him at any point in his career. The guy was not a serious threat to the HW title. Period. What does it say about his chances that in the run up to the Dempsey fight he refused to even spar with MW Greb, ducked fights with him (and continued to do so for years), whose next fight was against a guy who had 10 losses in 18 fights and his fight after that was against a guy who could still make the WW limit. I mean lets get real here. This guy was not a threat a HW nor a serious contender. Who exactly had he beaten in the seven previous years to say he was a title contender? Nobody. Nobody at all. His biggest HW win was against Gunboat Smith and he won that fight after being knocked down and rolling around on the canvas with his head in his hands claiming a foul that most people, including the referee who awarded the foul, said was inconsequential to Carpentier's actual well being. It wasn't the first or last time Carpentier would use this trick to attempt to win a fight when the going got too tough for him. If beating this guy impresses you for a guy who is supposed to be an all time great HW that supposedly matches up well against the best of any era then we can agree to disagree and just accept that you guys who love Dempsey have the bar a lot lower than you would for anyone else. Bob Foster was a much better LHW than Carpentier ever was and nobody every mentions him along Ali's best wins.

 

Its no different than jones looking great beating up his cab drivers. Its matchmaking 101, your fighter looks better the weaker the competetion.

But hey congrats on finally getting a nice copy of this but you arent the only person who can watch Dempsey in high quality and some of us arent impressed with him swinging wildly, mauling, rabbit punching, and getting badly wobbled by a smaller media hyped fighter with zero legitimate wins at the world class level.

Its not being a glass half empty guy its being a guy to whom context is everything. I dont watch his bout with Willard and Carpentier and imagine hes fighting 1967 Ali or 1986 Tyson I go in knowing Carpentiers story in great detail, not being impressed, and realizing why Dempsey might be able to dominate someone like that. Apparently being a glass half full guy means drinking the koolaide like they did 100 yrs ago without really knowing anything about the human speed bag in front of Dempsey in 1921 who didnt really bring a whole lot to the table.

 

This is ludicrous. It is of the utmost importance to know the quality of the opponent. Just like you can not judge the quality of a fighter by watching his bag work.

Better opponents, better heavyweights, would not allow Dempsey to overpower them in this manner and would deliver more in return. Just as a bigger, stronger natural heavyweight (but still needing to be an excellent heavy) wouldn't let Dempsey get away with the mugging he gave Gibbons.

You are missing out on one of the fundamentals of the sport.

 

True T. But we know the old adage, "protect yourself at all times".

 

So K, am I to take from your post above, you are not a great fan
of the Orchard Man ? Neverther less he had a great right hand and the power to ko bigger men...

 

Hahaha you've got that right and with the experience Lewis had it was unbelievable.
The great man thought if he beat Carpenter he'd get a fight with Dempsey.
Lewis only weighed 150lb for that fight but wasn't afraid of anybody.

 

Didn't Carpentier have a very debatable loss to Jeanette. Of course that was before the war and many years passed before Dempsey bout. Not trying to build Carpentier up, I think Jack should of slaughtered him but that at least is a decent performance on his ledger.

 

No, that is called putting the performance in context. The factual evidence of Carpentier's abilities as a heavyweight put Dempsey's performance in relief.

This is not a glass half full/empty argument. It is one of wild supposition that because Dempsey had his way with an unqualified challenger he exhibited greatness. I looked great against ****ty opponents, which meant nothing in terms of my actual abilities.

Case in point... Jeff Lacy looked like a world beater against Omar Sheika but we saw him different light when put in relief by Calzaghe. Which is the more true representation?

 

Sorry Im not creaming my pants because the heavyweight champion was carrying a guy who got his ass handed to him by every world class fighter he fought when the fix wasnt in (and once when it was). Talk about ludicrous rose colored goggles fanboyism. You are literally telling me how impressed you were by a sub standard opponent being dominated and carried in a fight that was a farce from a promotional standpoint. I think the more measured response would be "well, thats what we should expect right?" But instead youre gushing because you imagine you can see details that werent available before. Guess what? In standard def dempsey was dominating a substandard opponent. The match didnt suddenly get more one sided and carpentiers skills didnt improve because you got a good copy of the fight.

If you go into every fight thinking its entirely a 50/50 proposition and both fighters are prime all time greats then i envy your ignorance. It must be a glorious time to be alive in the sport of boxing in reznicks world. Lol.

 

Are you new to boxing or are you new to logic?