How much of an indicator is Rocky vs Shkor?

There are many including myself who thought Truth had just been robbed against the lineal heavyweight champion. And Weaver sparked Truth just two months before getting iced by smith, making it a very fresh win. Weaver fought on for another 10 years picking up wins over Bert Cooper, Phil Brown and undefeated versions of Duplooy and Pritchard.

 

Nobody considered Smith a top 3 to 5 "world beater" either.

He got a timely win, same as Shkor.

Shkor had a few high points as in timely upsets. His most recent was no. 3 Payne before Walcott and Marciano.

 

Apparently Ring Magazine did, and also the WBA who's title he held.

Ring Magazine Ratings for 1986

Michael Spinks, Champion
Mike Tyson

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Pinklon Thomas
Tim Witherspoon
Tony Tubbs
Trevor Berbick
James (Buster) Douglas
Tony Tucker
Frank Bruno
Tyrell Biggs

Any ratings for Shkor?

 

If you are insinuating that he would beat great big men based on this victory over a big bum.... Lol just lol

 

So your argument is a 35 year old Weaver is clearly better than anyone Shkor beat?

I disagree based of this reasoning.

 

I don't think Smith was ever a top 3 heavyweight. He got the right fights at the right time and Witherspoon possibly took a dive. Just a limited guy that could hit like a mule.

 

So do you always call "Ring rated" fighters "world beaters" ?

I'm aware he was rated by Ring after Spoon, but you used some intentionally disagreeable language there. The same fight
You admit was not on the level...come on, man. Don't abuse your ethics, there must isn't a case for Smith being all that superior.

Shkor was said to be rated after his wins over Flynn, Tami, and Payne. He did not make the year end ratings posted in boxrec as he fought mulitiple times a year and usually lost some.

 

Irrelevant. You're ignoring several points.

1. That regardless of what Shkor did in his prime, it wasn't what he was doing when he entered against Rocky and in fact had won only 5 of his last 15 bouts.. Smith at his best was a top 3 guy.. If we want to tailor a version of smith who was more comparable to shkor then maybe we can give him the one who lost to Levi Billups.

2. Weaver though past it was still a force in the divison. He had always kept himself in great shape and had just convincingly destroyed a top five contender who many believed had gotten robbed against the champ. He also continued to have a presence after the smith loss.

3. Weaver was not his only win. Frank Bruno was an undefeated prime contender. Bey had just recently challenged for the title and had beaten greg page. Ferguson was a tough fringe type. Ribalta was a prime contender. And witherspoon.... Well.. He got the win, let's just say that..

 

If anything Smith was more consistent and you gotta remember Shkor was on the other side of the size arguments. He was getting beaten by fighters 20, 30 pounds lighter. Marciano was not an isolated case.

 

I was just responding to this

To my knowledge I've just been stating facts.

He was 3 to 4 years removed from the Flynn and Mauriello wins when he met Marciano.. He was 14 month removed from the Payne win and in the interim had done nothing except get sparked in one round by Walcott. And I'm still not convinced that this Payne guy had a terribly high rating.

I'd say he lost quite a bit considering that he had only won 5 of his last 15 bouts or 13 of his last 31 if you will. If Smith's record was anything like this going in against Tyson or Holmes you wouldn't even be wasting your time having this discussion and I think you know it..

 

Another excellent point. Smith came up in an era where he was fighting guys who were at close or equal in some cases to his size dimensions. Shkor didn't.

 

1. Shkor had no prime run of consistent winning, he fought a lot of tough fighters in his final 4 years after the Navy, lost most but won a few.

You keep saying top 3 Like it means something after admiting the fight that earned him that spot was not on the level.


2. I don't think that is enough to convincingly top Shkor's best wins. Not saying they are better but I don't see a case either way.


3. And Shkor beat Flynn who wasn't undefeated but coming off a hot run. And Shkor beat his eras fringe contenders too.

 

You nailed it Mr M ,its about quality, not quantity! Shkor had won just 3 of his last ten fights.
In his last one, Walcott had flattened him inside a round.
At the age of 26 Shkor weighed 212lbs ,not a SHVY.

Shkor was beaten by
Wild Bill Boyd
Buddy Walker x2
Bill Weinberg
Red Burman
Joe Baksi
Natie Mann
Joe Muscato
Kid Riviera
Walter Hafer
Enriqu Pelpie
Jimmy Bivins
Sid Peaks
Leo Matriciani
Bernie Reynolds
Joe Walcott
And Marciano

He won 13 ,lost 19 , drew 2.

That's not the record of a contender.

 

Smith out weighed almost all his opponents as well, often by 20 as well. And was beat by guys like Frazier.

Smith only a smudge more consistent.

 

Then he shouldn't be compared to someone who at one point was one of the best in his division.

I can't prove that it was or wasn't on the level. I can only suspect. And as argued it wasn't his only win.

I think a case can be made that he was more consistent and if nothing else when smith lost it was generally to good fighters or at least before he became ancient.

But the argument here is what was he doing when he fought Marciano? the wins you reference came years prior and Shkor had been losing regularly since.