So Mayweather is essentially retired...

To be fair to Floyd there were claims he called Shane sooner and Shane wouldn't pick the fight.

And yeah Oscar was old, but not that old. So there's not a sea between edging a slightly past it Oscar, and losing a disputed decision over a younger one when you're slipping yourself.

 

So you basically agree with me. He beat no ATG when they were near their prime. Shoot, he didn't even beat close to ATG fighters when they were at their prime. Glad we agree, he did face the competition Pea did.

Corrales (I like this win actually), but he wasn't a ATG or near it. Same with Alvarez, Cotto, Judah or Hatton. The best fighter you mention here was Castillo, and again, he could've very well lost the first fight. Not exactly a mindboggling list of ATG or near it that May beat, in fact, it's paltry

Let me ask you PP, who do you think faced the better competition... Pea or May?

 

Oh and Pea/Chavez was closer than most people think IMO. Pea will always make you look bad.

 

What are you talking about?

Mayweather has a resume. It's better than Whitaker's.

He was the lineal Lightweight champion. The lineal welterweight champion. The lineal junior middleweight champion. He retired undefeated.

Because he was so good ... he broke records.

He did both -- resume and records ... just like the GREATS you mentiond..

Whitaker's resume wasn't as good as Mayweather's and he didn't break any records.

Mayweather deserves to be rated higher than Whitaker.

 

Not arguing that. I pointed to the logic. Resume doesn't always translate to fame and money. Like Dempsey's case, with a thin record and some fat gains. Or Burley that eventually had part time job at the tail end of his career.

 

On what planet, again, was Canelo Alvarez past his prime?

Alvarez was the lineal (RING) junior middleweight and he's the current lineal (RING) middleweight champion ... all by the age of 25.

Only two other boxers were even the lineal junior middle and middleweight champs ... Leonard and Benvenuti. Both are hall of famers.

Didn't an old Mayweather MOVE UP and beat Alvarez? Did you miss it. It was the BIGGEST PPV FINANCIAL BONANZA in boxing history to that point.

Are you glossing over active fighters because you don't follow the sport anymore?

What had Trinidad accomplished by age 25 that Alvarez hasn't? An IBF welterweight belt?

An old Mayweather moving up to win against Alvarez doesn't count ... but Whitaker getting beaten by Trinidad is some GREAT ACHIEVEMENT?

Think a 36-year-old Whitaker beats Canelo Alvarez - who weighs 170 pounds the night of the fight?

Or do you think his shoulder gets sore?

Stop!!!!!!!!!!

 

Who has Alvarez beaten? Please, stop acting like he's worth a ****. He's simply a marginal fighter at this point. Nothing special and CERTAINLY NOT AN ALL TIME GREAT. Do you have a reading comprehension problem or is English not your first language? Did you miss the part, in the line you tried to quote, where I said "ATG fighters or close to ATG fighters". Yes, Alvarez certainly doesn't meet EITHER criteria. Try reading and comprehending before posting bud.

BTW I accepted your concession already that Pea fought better fighters than May. All I have to do is list Oscar, Tito & Chavez. Floyd has NOBODY on his resume with the context and quality there. Let me guess, your going to say, but.. but... He beat Oscar!!!! LMAO Moronivich

 

And Whitaker has ZERO wins over those guys. atsch

Congratulations. :good

Floyd fought one of them and beat him.

Whatever you're smoking, you should probably stop.

 

And he captured the title from another former JMW that is 10 years older and took title from a shot Martinez on wobbly legs on the very last fight of his career.

And the fact that he is a MW champion NOW doesn't boost his standing THAN. Fighters improve. Canelo's fight with Mayweather itself was important for his advancement.

Again I'm not arguing Pea over Floyd.

 

I've tried and tried to explain to people on these forums many times that the greats Floyd fought were past prime.

But it usually falls on deaf ears.

Many are simply unwilling to consider it and accept it.

 

Of course it boosts his standing. Since when does beating a guy for a lineal junior middleweight title, and then he moves up and wins the lineal middleweight title NOT COUNT?

And Mayweather did that TWICE - with Cotto (although he wasn't the lineal champ at 154) and Alvarez.

Hell, when Mike Weaver, Bonecrusher Smith, and Tim Witherspoon won "paper" titles, it boosted Larry Holmes' standing.

When Vitali won the title after Lewis, it boosted Lewis' standing.

You don't want the guys you beat to have LESS success after ... because then idiots say they were SHOT.

 

And you seem to live in a world where Floyd Mayweather was perpetually 28 ... and everyone else was 40.

Mayweather was the older man in many fights with name fighters. Cotto, Alvarez, Pacquaio, Hatton, to name a few.

How many future Hall of Famers in that group of four?

Maybe FOUR?

How many did he beat? ALL OF THEM.

 

Have you ever tried explaining to a Jehovah's Witness that they're wrong?

 

Well probably not no, but you can say that about most ATGs. Where's the Prime ATG wins for Joe Louis? Benny Leonard? Chavez? Barney Ross? Gans? Monzon? Archie Moore? Spinks? None of them have.

And if they do beat an ATG it tends to be curtesy of the boxer beating them and hence become and ATG. For instance if Pep beats Saddler who was big strong powerful oaf and doesn't lose to him, then he has no ATG wins on his register. But he lost the series 4-1 was it? So he has an ATG win. And somehow he makes

If Ali beats Frazier easily first time has he not beat any ATGs?

*didn't*? Anyway it's close outside of prime Tito/DLH but he would of beat prime versions of both. Just watch DLH-Quartey and DLH-Tito if you remotely doubt that and tell me how either beat FMJ

Make a list of 130lb boxers who beat him, it won't be very long if you're honest, he'd beat Saddler imo. Not an ATG imo either but he's very good and hard to beat for most

Castillo wasn't clearly the best though. Hatton beat Tyszu and ko'd JLC in 4 by bodyshot past his prime, so at the time Hatton was meant to be a big threat. Judah was unified WW champ. Cotto and Alvarez will probably be remembered as greater than Castillo although JLC's wins are underrated today and even in his own day.

But if in fact you consider JLC to beat Mayweather he becomes an ATG does he not? He'd have Mayweather the best of the era on his ledger, plus the no1 LW Stevie Johnson x2, Casamayor and top contender like Bazan, Lazcanno and Diaz. That's definitely the best LW resume of the decade.

I think it's a wash overall, Pea face the best 2 primed opponents while losing to them (edging Oscar out imo). While Mayweather has more longevity, more ranked opposition etc but even on the best fighters they facedI'd rank as following:

24yo DLH>34yo DLH
Chavez>Pacquaio
Vasquez<Alvarez
McGirt=Cotto (actually probably McGirt but it's close)
Mayweather<Judah
Ramirez<Castillo
Nelson<Marquez
Haugen<Hatton

Now you might argue some of those the other way but I think you'd agree for the most part they are quite good comparisons and similar levels of challenge. The further down we get down the list Mayweather is winning on longevity/depth so I won't bother.

He called out Mosley and DLH when both were at 147 and he was at 135 on HBO. He signed to fight prime Winky but Shaw Winky's manager withdrew when Arum brought forth a contract for 60-40. Mayweather had already signed although it was stipulated Winky would weigh in at 154 on the same day.

 

I hear ya.