Walcott Only Took The 2nd Marciano Fight For The $$$$

Duran and Liston (in the first Ali fight) did in fact quit.

Walcott was counted out.

To imply he stayed down deliberately and then jumped to his feet after "ten" to complain loudly to the referee taints him with a level of cynicism I can't go to considering what everyone else has always said about his character.

His explanation sounds genuine to me.

 

The problem with quotes is did the man really say that.

These quotes here have Marciano devaluing his own victory. Kind of an odd thing to do for a man who gave so much to establish his legacy.

In my misspent youth, I did have some training as a historian, and quotes are not very good historical evidence one way or another unless they are in writing or on film. Someone saying someone said something is just hearsay.

Now I know I quoted both men in an above post. The quote from Walcott for what it is worth comes from the writer directly interviewing him, and Marciano at least is saying something consistent with his interests.

 

He certainly didn't do it for fun.any one who fought the rock twice were never the same as the first fight.

 

You got me. You have a good source. I am sorry for questioning you on this point.

"The only reason I think that Walcott fought a second time was because he was guaranteed in the original contract a guarantee of $250,000 if there was a return match."

I would point out that because he fought for the money does not necessarily in itself prove Walcott wasn't trying to win.

Marciano's viewpoint on the psychological impact of being knocked out is interesting, but only Walcott can answer if he thought he could win going in.

"I think he could have gotten up. I know I would have."

I could not find these lines on this video and I listened all the way through and even went to the next section of the documentary.

What Marciano says here is--

"People expected another great fight. I know I did."

So Marciano thought going in that Walcott came to win.

"Everyone was disappointed. Walcott. Myself. And the crowd."

If Walcott didn't want to get up, why would he be disappointed? This actually implies that Walcott wanted to win.

*There is no doubt the original quote backs up the title of this thread.

But this being professional boxing money is always part of the equation. Would Dempsey have fought the rematch with Tunney for nothing? Who knows?

 

Yep, I agree with this.

 

McVey

Stepping out of any debate for a moment,

I really would like to know where this quote--

"I think he could have gotten up. I know I would have."

--comes from.

I am interested as it just seems so much out of character for Marciano. Whatever one thinks of him in the ring, outside the ring he conducted himself with taste. He was generally gracious to his opponents. I find it odd he would accuse Walcott of quitting publicly or in an interview with the press. He really seemed to respect Walcott when the two of them were filmed together.

 

"Leibling's take on the fight." "pantomimed outrage"

I just re-watched both the TV tape and the film (made from different angles) and Walcott seemed shocked or "bewildered" (the announcer's term) from the moment he got up and began showing frustration and anger (at first with himself) before beginning to complain to the referee within perhaps twenty seconds.

My take is that Walcott deliberately staying down and then making a big show of outrage is out of character.

 

He definitely could of got up quicker. He didn't want to go through a fight as hard as last time and he wasn't letting his hands go. Still it was a legit KD

Imagine for a minute though how much money you could make if you did take a dive and got a few people to put good sums on the round you knew you were going down in.

EDIT: he had his faculties and was still seated at 9, that isn't someone who really wants to fight in my book. And it happened in a mob town, hmmm sounds dodgy to me wonder if big money went in on that round.

 

"it happened in a mob town"

There was a non-mob town in the USA?

"wonder if big money went in on that round."

The reports were that betting was light on the fight as almost everyone felt Marciano would win. With all the controversy, hard to believe some reporter wouldn't have checked with the bookies about heavy money coming down on a first round KO.

"he had his faculties"

Walcott claimed he did not hear the count after seven. That doesn't sound like he had his faculties.

 

All fair answers EM and we'll never know, it just looked a tad suspect. It could very well be just a legit KO or it could be a fighter full of demons not wanting to go through that pain barrier again so soon.