Just how "GREAT" were the former American "WORLD CHAMPIONS" of the past??

I agree up until Vlad.

Vladimir is not ATG anything.
He fought in the weakest era EVER and still managed to get KO'd.

Vlad actually got KTFO by a member of the PGA

 

Wlad has long dominance and a pretty good resume. I have no issue calling him an ATG, although H2H his loss vs Fury left a sour taste.

 

You say fat, Look at Klitschkos body at 245 pounds - he looks more lean than what 210+ pounds Ali did. Ali at 201 looked lean:

[url]http://static.boxrec.com/thumb/7/75/1229_alicooperblood66.jpg/450px-1229_alicooperblood66.jpg[/url]

At 220 pounds ALI looked fat: [url]https://41.media.tumblr.com/c473421d1b6bc25b287365620fe70132/tumblr_nb1uwr528M1qesjr7o1_500.jpg[/url]

This is Klitschko at his normal weight: [url]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2fsiej4OP1r1zhqlo7_1280.jpg[/url]

Case closed.

 

ATG fighters do great things.
Long dominance of a ghost town does not cut it.

He did not have the talent...heart...or stamina to be considered an ATG.

 

Sorry but I disagree, dominance of your era is the first step to ATGness. Where you want to place a fighter depends on what sort of opposition he was dominating.

 

I think it makes him an elite, but a weak elite.

in turn if it makes him an ATG, its a very weak ATG.


there are dozens of non-atgs who could have done what he did had they fought so many weaklings...but they never had media savvy management team who knew how to con people so well.

 

who has claimed K bros are fat? IT IS YOU who has claimed that heavier people are the best. That is your claim to defend, THAT generalisation -and you are not getting away with picking up individual cases (freak cases at that) to support your generalisation.

Defend your argument about your generalisation, not a new argument about 2 guys and then pretending that closes the case for the whole worlds boxing population.


yeh..but I get why you said "case closed" now... its cos you knew your argument was duff, so you needed to run away from it!

 

That's what I said earlier, Wladmir is an ATG, where people rank him though is going to vary.

 

Not if your era is total shi.t.

Vlad was timidly "dominating" weak comp...while showing glaring flaws and meager stamina while doing so.


I don't rate Tyson as an ATG for the same reason....he got ATG hype...but he was not an ATG talent wise.

 

ATG is supposed to mean All Time Great.

Great fighters do great things..

Vlad never did anything great...not unless you count getting KTFO by a card-carrying member of the PGA.

 

this is probably it, he is famous for the weakest records in history.


I would say Wladdie is HoF, for being in a family tag team which hasn't been done before (for obvious reasons of it being illegal not withstanding of course).

ATG is a push..if hes ATG, hes bottom of the list or close to it.

 

Come on now..give credit where credit is due. His dominance and longetivity is incredible.

 

eyh I just don't think hes a done thing, at best hes backdoor ATG.

Hes done two great things - staying power/commitment to the sport, and being in a family that owned HW titles simultaneously. The latter was a form of cheating too.

 

its not incredible, loads of guys would manage it if they had been so Machiavellian towards their fans as the Ks.


it does display commitment though, at a fairly decent level of boxing (approximately staying at European level for 10 years).

 

Why? W Klitchko is probably the 2nd greatest super heavy ever and he was knocked the **** out by a part time boxer, part time golfer.