Just how "GREAT" were the former American "WORLD CHAMPIONS" of the past??

so tysons saying that they aren't actually better intrinsically, but its down to extrinsic factors like vitamins.

As to wther he beats K bros, its not an if at all to beat a guy who got flattened in seconds easily by retired nobodies, vitali would be more of a test but I cant see vitali outscoring him, he'd be in survival mode.

 

It's hilarious how Tyson speaks as if he lived in some primitive era...the 90s were the golden age of PEDs in boxing.

 

So THAT'S what it is. The boxers are better today because they take their vitamins lol. Thanks for educating us TS.

 

Maybe those are the real vitamins to which he and the TS refer.

 

I'll try and give it another shot, just for the sake of the argument, since it's a lovely thought experiment, even though I agree with you. Your question, as I understand it, was who are the great amateur Soviet boxers and what American champs would they beat if they'd gone pro? Hypothetically, all I really have to do is line up a talented/accomplished amateur in the same era as a weak champ.

Soviet Amateur - Years - Champ
Teofilo Stevenson -1972-88 heavy- Leon Spinks, John Tate, Mike Weaver, Michael Dokes
Felix Savon - 1987-2000 heavy- Tony Tucker, Buster Douglas, Tommy Morrison, Herbie Hide, George Foreman, Bruce Seldon
Valeri Popenchenko- 1959-1965 middle- Paul Pender
Boris Lagutin- 1959-1968 light middle- Denny Moyer, Ralph Dupas
Vladimir Yengibaryan -1955-1960 light welter- no weight division
Oleg Grigorjev -1957-1965 bantam- Alphonse Halimi
Nikolai Fyodorovich Korolev -1936-1946 heavy- never gonna beat Joe Louis
László Papp 1948-1964 middle- Bobo Olson, Paul Pender, Terry Downes, and possibly Joey Giardello.

I'm not saying that Stevenson beats Ali, Foreman, or Holmes but there were some other fighters whom he might have been able to wrest a piece of the crown from. Savon isn't beating Mike Tyson, but he might beat some of the other champs. Popenchenko had better not mess with Ray Robinson, but Paul Pender, sure. You get the idea.

 

Poor hturd, you keep trying, keep failing. Know, I don't think you know what extrapolate means, or much of anything else. I said your implication is all wrong. You are using extrapolate to imply that it is wrong to say one person's characteristics are indicative of broader principles. I am saying it is right to observe those characteristics when they are reflective of broader trends. You are the one actually saying "uh, you're wrong, because you're right".

Jeez, this is such a stupid argument over trivial wording coming out of your nonsensical prose that inherently flits to some meaningless, inscrutable topic with your atrocious vocabulary and grammar. You are master of giving up on all real arguments and focusing on stupid, asinine stuff that is totally irrelevant. Another epic fail for the hturd.

 

Good tread! You made some interesting points and asked some very interesting questions.
In a nutshell I dare to say that most of the so called American greats were not and would not been so great if the fighters of the former soviet union had been able to fight at the pros then in the 50s,60,70s,and 80s.
Sure,some of them would still have been able to capture a world title and would be rightfully called all time greats today.Nevertheless,they had no competition from the soviet union in the paid ranks then.
I remember watching a fight of Evander HOllyfield against Bobby Cyzz or whatever the name of that no-hoper was.
What a pathetic fight it was! HOllyfield looked horrible against no-hoper with zero skills.The same people who call Hollyfield an all time great belittle Wlad for his achievements.Well,maybe he is a bad example.
Or Larry HOlmes.His opposition was just incredibly bad.He wouldnt even have reached the semi-finals in the soviet union heavy weight championchip then.
Good luck for him that there was no competition from the former soviet union then.

 

Not that good. There was little opportunity for fighters of other nationalities, plus they could all juice until their hearts was content. Joe Calzaghe is better than any American in history. Even Sugar Ray Robbo who folded like a lawn chair when he stepped onto British soil.

 

One bad performance from Holyfield doesn't put his entire career in question. He fought down to the level of his opposition often but when he stepped up the guy was a master boxer. He gave Lewis one of his toughest fights in the rematch, arguably won. This is the same Lewis that tore Vitali Klitscko a new one at the end of his damn career.

And how can you even criticize Holmes? He beat Ray Mercer and fought for the title twice in his 40s, and looked pretty good. I guess he was just lucky there weren't ATGs like Chagaev and Povetkin to dethrone him. :roll:

 

Have you ever seen these Soviet heavyweights fight: Nikolai Korolev, Alexander Yagubkin, Igor Vysotsky?

The first two were definitely better than Povetkin or Chagaev. Vysotsky had wins over Teofilo Stevenson (twice) and Tony Tubbs

 

Vysotsky beat an 18 year old Tubbs and also lost to a 19 year old Page.

He himself was 23 and 24 for those contests respectively. Countries like the former Soviet Union and Cuba were represented by far more seasoned, exceptionally-well trained and experienced men in the Olympics while America often sent young prospects.

Ionas Chepulis was 29 years old when he lost to a 19 year old George Foreman in 1968.

Zbigniew Pietrzykowski was 26 years old when he lost to 18 year old Cassius Clay in 1960.

Teofilio Stevenson was 20 when he captured his first gold. 24 and 28 when he captured his second and third.

I'm not saying that these guys wouldn't have made a wave if they were able to turn pro. But questioning the legacy of a flood of champions just because they weren't able to compete with certain countries is absurd.

 

:good

 

Again, the first group of Soviet World champions who came over 25 years ago, were journeymen, stiff, straight up, and predictable.

[url]http://articles.latimes.com/1991-02-23/sports/sp-1283_1_amateur-boxing[/url]

Yuri Vaulin (talented, but undersized heavyweight) quitting against Tommy Morrison...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyoW8jEXjeg[/url]

Alexander Zolkin (big, talented southpaw Russian champion) having no answer for crusierweight Mike Hunter...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNx6PBUwAmM[/url]

Soviet national champion Viktor Egrov got KOed by Mike Brown who was 14-19.

Sergei Artemiev, who was the best of all, lost to Carl Griffith who was a white fringe contender from Ohio, who gave Roger Mayweater a good fight, and lost to ODLH.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTjvA7vKciA[/url]

Vytsoky sparred an old, fat, sick, washed up Muhammad Ali, and bounced punches of his chin for 3 rounds (as did two other Russian heavyweight champs) but never got Ali to respect him enough to stop clowning...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06R4UVpkKtg[/url]



slobodan Kacar, Serbian olympic gold medalist, maybe the best Yugoslav ever, was a decent pro, but got crushed by Bobby Czyz.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06R4UVpkKtg[/url]

We could go on and on.

 

"Huck beats Ali"

I've read some stupid posts, but that takes the cake.

Huck's technique is laughably bad.