Nat Fleisher's Top Ten Heavyweights -1971

Nat was an interesting guy but some of the picks are perplexing. Putting Louis at #6 is a travesty, especially behind Corbett and Fitzimmons.

Schmeling is underrated but does not deserve to be ahead of Marciano.

Thst being said, i really envy Nat for having seen all these great fighters ring side.

 

Did he see Corbett and Fitz?:think

 

Corbett over Louis :roll:

 

I don't know that he saw Corbett or Fitz. I suppose he might have seen an older Corbett taking on Jeffries.

Of course he did see Johnson and Dempsey. What i wouldn't pay for high quality footage of those two. There is some good footage of Dempsey but the film on Johnson is mostly of poor quality.

 

As silly as the list looks, we have to give Nat the benefit of the doubt that there is some credibility behind his list.

The balance of bias between modern fans, who haven't seen these people fight in person, versus him, who has seen most of them fight, weighs in his favor.

 

This list often leads to dummy spitting among modern fight fans, who have never actually seen a lot of the fighters on the list.

I don’t agree with this list personally, but I am still deeply intrigued by it, and you should be as well.

 

To the people mocking his list, nobody's legacy is cemented as soon as they retire. Even after Louis retired, Dempsey was still seen by most as beat the G.O.A.T for a long period of time.

 

My sentiments exactly!

 

Bob Fitzsimmons at number 3 is absolutely an undefendable position! There is no way possible that Fitz at 3 is a legitimate pick.


I mean, an old semi retired fitz made mincemeat of Jeffries (and beat him by TKO under modern rules) and an ancient Fitz took on Johnson with 1 arm behind his back. Prime Fitz stops the pair of them easily. He should be number one for sure :good

 

Nat saw both Fitz and Corbett in exhibitions during their retirement years.

Nat listing Corbett over Louis had to do with Conn and Pastor doing well against Louis. Corbett in Nats eyes was technically and physically superior to Conn.

 

It's not that bad for a list that is now 45 years old. Bear in mind he'd only seen the incomplete careers of Ali, Foreman and Frazier, and never saw Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis or the Klitschkos, all of whom are considered in or near the top ten nowadays. Nine of his ten made the IBRO's top twenty in 2005 so he wasn't miles off the current consensus.

 

I dont agree with his ratings but Nat states a good case in defending his choices.

With Ali just losing to Frazier it's difficult to imagine anything more coming from either fighter. Ali certainly could not get better could he? And Nat had witnessed 1960s best version of Ali from the first row of the ring apron.

 

Sure, and many of the films back then are gone. The ones left are not good quality. In addition, Nat had first-hand testimonials.

 

Most historians until the 1950's had Louis behind Jeffries, Johnson, Demspey, and Fitz and many of these historians saw them all. Who are they, I'll list three lists from old timers.

Louis being #1 or #2 overall kicked in around the time the historians who saw boxing from 1900-1950 died out.

This suggests perhaps the old timers were better than we think, though I can't see Louis below Corbett or Fitz.


Nat's list:

1. Johnson
2. Jeffries
3. Fitzsimmions
4. Dempsey
5. Corbett
6. Louis
7. Langford
8. Tunney
9. Schmelling
10. Marciano


Nest up is Charlie Rose. Rose is a historian and boxing manager

1. Sam Langford
2. Jack Johnson
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Joe Louis
5. James J. Jeffries
6. Gene Tunney
7. Sam McVey
8. Rocky Marciano
9. James J. Corbett
10. Max Baer

* Rose had Fitzsimmons #1 at Light heavy.


And last is McCallum. McCallum list is not his opinion, but one of several men. I forget the exact number who voted but there were at least 12. The consensus of his survey was:

All-Time List (Survey of Old Timers) compiled by John McCallum

1. Jim Jeffries
2. Jack Johnson
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jim Corbett
5. Jack Dempsey
6. John L. Sullivan
7. Gene Tunney
8. Joe Louis
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Muhammad Ali


>> Fitz and Corbett had lots of respect back then.