Carlos Monzon vs Sugar Ray Leonard

Leonard would be by far the best opponent Monzon ever faced. Id pick Leonard.

 

I thought Valdez was a pretty reasonable name on Monzons record. He seems to be forgotten in here now.

 

Well obviously your biasness in my opinion doesn't allow you to see how special Leonard was. (by the way,not a fan of his, nor did I ever say he was a great middle). And I saw plenty of times during the Hagler fight were Leonard actually planted his feet and tried to take Haglers head off. That doesn't mean the punches were "pity pat". that only ment he couldn't hurt Hagler. And besides Hearns,Mugabi,Roldan, Hamsho,all naturally better punchers then Leonard also tried to knock out Hagler, and look were it got them. The only difference was Leonard had the ability to change his fight plan DURING the fight. They didn't. And of course Hagler had lost a step. But certain people like you will say to your dying day that Leonard was nothing more then a flash in the pan, or media creation. I happen to disagree with that. Because I actually looked at his career without bias. But unlike you and a few others here if you actually came with something reasonable, I could see your point of view. As I agreed earlier with one poster who said something rational and explained how Monzon would win. I have no problem with that and could see his point of view. But too sit on your butt and to type that one of the greatest and most gifted fighters in the history of the sport would absolutely have no chance against Monzon is asinine. And shows to me at least your truly blind and bias.

 

Hes not forgotten by me but when Monzon finally fought him after ducking him for three years Valdez right hand had been severely injured in a car accident that threatened to end his career. He was never the same fighter after that. The best Valdez was not as good as Leonard and Monzon didn't fight the best Valdez.

 

Almost all that does equate to size right? I did say other then size..... And what does cold blooded mean? Was Monzon a reptile? Now if were talking about killer instinct in a fighters sense I could debate that along with mental toughness But won't. Your opinions and bias on Leonard were made before the internet was created. Your in that group that looked at that one tree. Screw the forest lol.

 

A fascinating match-up.

Everyone talks about Leonard's speed and skills, but he had a fantastic chin, the heart of a champion to walk into the fire if needed to win and top level power at his weight.

Leonard's trouble is Monzon was durable and active, not likely to be beaten the way Leonard first beat Heanrs after Leonard made an in-flight adjustment realizing that he could not out-box Hearns from the outside. Leonard had to attack Hearns!

The wild card is Leonard's hand and foot speed. Monzon wasn't fast at all.

I'll go with Monzon via close UD. 8-6-1 in a 15 round fight. Monzon is just too big and active and Leonard would need to get up close to do his best work. Carlos's specialty was being shorter fighters who moved up in weight and judgement of distance.

 

Valdez, Benivutes, Napoles, Griffith, All of them had one thing in common a couple of greats, a couple of goods fighters but all fought Monzon in the fall/winters of their careers. That in no way shape or form should be held as a comparison to a prime Leonard. Or any of them in there primes as a matter of fact.

 

I agree 100%. Ive never been in love with Monzon like some are. I admit hes a big, awkward fighter, difficult to land on and effective but ive never understood the hubbub about his supposed power, killer instinct, or resume. I think his power is overrated, i dont see him as an ice cold killer (in the ring) at all, and the best names on his resume were not only well past their best but were fighting above their best weight against a big MW.

 

One thing I don't get is when posers seem to suggest that Leonard 'shoeshined' against Marvin...I saw plenty of hard leather coming from Ray.
I agree that he has enough power to get anyone's respect. (At 160)

In the telecast for the rematch between Leonard and Hearns, Hagler at ringside admitted that 'he (Ray) can punch' although be did quickly follow that statement up with 'He didn't hurt me though...'
But in any event, if Hagler (who loathed giving Ray any credit) admitted that he could punch, then that says a lot to me.

 

I don't understand it either, many times during that fight Leonard planted his feet and blasted Hagler. He just couldn't hurt him, but it wasn't from lack of trying or fighting safety 1st.

 

Are you stupid? A 1987 Leonard isn't even close to Napoles or Griffith

 

Absolutely. You can't completely judge a fighter by his record. Otherwise we would just pull up boxrec and close every debate down. But, a record does say a lot and Monzon's didn't feature any big names in prime. 34 year old ex-lightweight Napoles, 35 year old ex-welter Griffith?

Also, he was a chain-smoking party animal and, unless we suspend all that we have thought we knew about how fighters should prepare, maybe his conditioning left a lot to be desired which you wouldn't say about prime Leonard, before he retired (the first time) and found coke.

Maybe he was fortunate to come along at a time when the middleweight division was in a lull, talentwise, that allowed a hard living wild man to flourish. Maybe he also didn't fight the best contenders. You could make a case that even though he was still developing, Hagler fought better middleweights on the way up than Monzon was choosing to defend the title against.

What I struggle to make a case for is that Monzon had a stellar record against prime middleweights. And I cannot see how the possibility that he might lose to one of the best fighters ever, albeit one naturally smaller, should be so outlandish as to be dismissed without debate in the way in which some posters here are doing.

 

He's not stupid at all. A 1987 Leonard isn't even close to prime Leonard. We're debating prime Leonard vs Monzon not the former coke addict with one fight in five years.

 

Great points all, K:good. Although I do believe he was a very good puncher. But Carlos was at the end of his rope as well when he fought Rocky.

 

Leonard was getting outboxed on the outside by Hearns until he switched gears. Carlos isn't as tall nor has a reach advantage on Tommy, but he does have a slight advantage over Leonard in both departments. Carlos doesn't have a handspeed advantage over neither Leonard nor Tommy, but he's very good at exploiting space differences, where he obviously has an advantage over Leonard. If Leonard gets inside, he's not going to rough Monzon up like he did Tommy. I like Carlos by convincing decision here.