There is no way he's going to be just an after thought. For me I see him a bit like Guillermo Rigondeax who I'm also a huge mark for. He;s had bad fights, bad moments and I don't make excuses for them but when he's on and in the right mind state there are very few men I'd rather watch fight. He's faced everyone and anyone who would share a ring with him. He's put on absolute masterclasses performances against very good fighters. For me it's far more about technique and accuracy, fighting efficently, and those beautiful moments that make you say damn that guy is good at this. When everything else fades, the speed, the reflexes, It's just pure skill and this man had the skill to fight men who clearly dwarfed him physically. Then fact that he could even do it, and do it fairly well makes him an ATG to me. I respect and understand your opinion but I think we have different criteria for ATG status.:hi:
It's possible but Joe threw about 700 punches in the fight of the century according to our own ChrisPontius. http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=124739 Jirov threw over 1000 in his fight with Toney according to BoxRec. http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Vassiliy_Jirov_vs._James_Toney Frazier definetley hit harder, but didn't carry the volume of fighters that Toney has already beat. This would be a brutal inside war and I'd love every second of it. They would beat the hell out of each other with Frazier landing hooks and Toney slipping and uppercutting, Frazier doesn't land enough to stop him and takes a beating himself. I'd be great. The fact that we are having a conversation about weather Joe Frazier could stop this blown up middleweight makes him an ATG.:good
What do we consider JT's natural weight class. For me, he is best ~168-175, because he still has power, as well as mad skills. Below Heavyweight, very few, maybe Michael Spinks, if he caught him clean, but I wouldn't bet good money on it, I see Toney having a chance to beat Spinks clean. Dwight Qawi would be a war, as would Marvin Johnson, and Matthew Saad Muhammad. I wouldn't bet money on them to stop him though, and I wouldn't even favour them every time out. Bob Foster I thought was a good choice, monster puncher. I think he could stop Toney, but unlike some of the above, I could see Toney maybe stopping him too. David Haye? Sorry to all who hate him, but he has the punch. However, he could well gas and get stopped himself. The small heavies, punchers like Marciano, Frazier, Dempsey etc. because their work rate is very high and the damage is devastating. They don't get tired, either. However, Toney is also very good defensively, and therefore is not just going to get clobbered, but I just don't seem him having the pop in his punches to discourage Rocky, or Frazier. I don't know enough about the old time fighters to make any type of useful statements there. The big heavies, Liston onwards, in their primes, that is not a fair matchup, I cannot see him standing up to any of the big bombers in their primes. I seem Liston, Foreman, Lewis, Tyson, just attacking him, and being content to hit him anywhere while bullying with natural size/strength. NO shame in this, they are all natural heavies. Even if Tyson same height, he is a bigger guy by a lot. Interesting though, I think inside is where Toney might have more chance to survive a while vs Iron Mike, as Mike was not so much an infighter. The fact that we have this kind of thread suggests to me that Toney was a helluva fighter when he showed up, in shape.
Mike spinks had the speed and his jinx could hurt toney maybe he could do it? I wouldn't bet any dosh on it .
GTFO even when Calzaghe had healthy hands he never packed the punch to put Toney down, much less out. Joe probably gets taken apart with counter right hands inside those wide swings. I have Toney as a STRONG favorite in this one, and I wish it could have happened. Joe would have gotten embaressed.
That's right. Toney had absolutely NO PROBLEM timing Gmans speed. Toney tasted the straight right and it didn't really phase him. The rest of the spar is Toney taking over more and more with each passing round. To be fair, its a young Gman and a prime Toney but Toney operates in the pocket with total confidence and even slips Gman's right with a slight turn off head (awesome reflexes). If Toney could do that - it would be a horrible night for Gman. Gman is the one getting stopped no way Gman stops Toney. Gman can bring it no doubt but Toney can take it and adapt.