Sonny Liston Children?

That was a complicated time in his life. You're oversimplifying it by saying it reflects violent tendencies.

Ali was a warrior. Took all comers, any time any place. He didn't need to harm or kidnap anyone. Has any of his opponents claimed to have been threatened by the NOI?

Ali was his own man. It takes a wise man to accept the guidance and advice of others. And he accepted direction from the NOI often. But this insinuation that Ali was a pawn for the NOI is bogus.

 

The betting theories have all been discounted.

And nothing happened in the first two minutes in the ring to humiliate Liston or compel him to call it a day.

The police stated they were on the lookout for men who were on the way to gun down Ali.

I don't know if a "potential" threat would be enough for Liston to take a seat.

But an actual threat "on his family" by members of a group that had been killing people leading up to the fight ... likely would.

 

You either die a hero....or live long enough to see yourself agree with Klomtpon :good

 

Ali WAS NOT his own man when he won the title in his early 20s.

He divorced his first wife because they wanted him to divorce her.

They killed one of his best friends. There are photos of Ali posing with Malcolm X's wife and holding his kids. And Ali took the side of the people who killed his friend.

I have no idea where you got this "Ali was his own man" stuff. But, in his 20s, you could not be more wrong about that.

Ali could hold a guys kids, and then turn right around and say the guy deserved to be murdered ... on a DIME.

He was BLINDLY loyal and did what they told him to do.

 

It's not a mystery novel. Ali was a great man. The only time he broke the law in a serious way was not joining the war. Most of his opponents till this day speak of him with tremendous regard. Almost every interaction someone has with him is positive to say the least.

It's Ali man. You want to have these fantasies about kidnappings and heists? Are you crazy?!

http://vid.alarabiya.net/images/201...-ab89-4e85-95e3-4989bd239868_16x9_600x338.jpg

 

reznick,
It's impossible to take your posts seriously.
I'm not even going to try to anymore and won't bother to respond.

 

The vast majority of conspiracy theories seem to not hold up when examined very closely in an objective manner.

I believe that if there was a highly competent and respected referee in the second bout between Muhammad Ali and Sonny Liston, it is likely that there would not have been a controversial ending.

Sonny Liston's family can be found in the 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census Records. Ten-year-old Charlie Liston is can be found in the 1940 U.S. Census, but not the 1930 one. Charlie's brother, Curtis, was listed as being six months old during April 1930 and eleven years old during 1940. If Curtis was born in September or October 1929, it is most likely that Sonny could not have been born until the latter part of 1930 at the very earliest, especially if both Curtis and Sonny had the same mother.

- Chuck Johnston

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSskWIASFqU

I'll take his word over yours. And my common sense, and ability to judge character.


Many great people in the past joined out of the box groups, and allowed themselves to take advice and guidance of others.

If that's how you see Ali, I feel bad for you!

 

I'm sorry for disturbing you.

Please, continue your kidnapping stories.

 

http://ilmfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/malcolm-x-muhammad-ali-.jpg

The death threats rattled Malcolm, but they did not demoralize him. Treachery did that. "Worse than death there was betrayal." He would concede. And no betrayal cut as deeply as Ali's. Ali's public rejection of Malcolm, "hurt Malcolm more than any other person turning away that I know of," Betty Shabazz, Malcolm's wife tells Hauser.

On Christmas Day 1964, in a Boston hotel room, a group of Muslims posing as newsmen, severly beat Ali's press secretary, Leon 4X Ameer. Although working for Ali, Ameer had remained close to Malcolm, a risky show of loyallty. Two weeks later after the assault, Ameer held a press conference in Harlem's Theresa Hotel. He expressed his fears that Ali might be killed in "Black Muslim in-fighting" and regretted that the spiritual sense of the nation was "just about dead."

Either out of fear or a feudal sense of obligation to the Messenger, Ali held a press conference at the Theresa the same day. "Ameer's nothing to me," he said. "He was welcomed as a friend as long as he was a registered Muslim, but not anymore." When asked if Ameer should fear for his life, Ali answered coldly; "They think everyone's out to kill them because they know they deserved to be killed for what they did." His "they" included Malcolm X.

Two days later, at the Audubon Ballroom of all the fateful places, Ali told a Fruit of Islam gathering that "the white press" had decieved Malcolm into thinking he was the Nation's number 2 man, and now he is "diillusioned". Soon after, Muhammad Speaks accused Ameer of plotting to kill Elijah Muhammad and ran a "wanted" poster with Ameer's picture.

As the death threats morphed into murder plots, Betty Shabazz begged Ali's intercession. "You see what they are doing to my husband, don't you?" She pleaded after a chance encounter with Ali at the Theresa. Ali blew her off, disingenuously raising his hands in the air saying, "I'm not doing anything to him."

Two days before his death, and five days after a Muslim death squad had burned down his house, Malcolm X concluded that "brotherhood" was the only thing that could save this country." I've learned it the hard way," Malcolm regretted, "but I've learned it." As he feared, he had one harder lesson to learn.

The autopsy report lists "fifteen "shotgun and other caliber bullet wounds."

Betty Shabazz was there with her four children. "She heard shots," reads the chilling NYPD report. "She pushed the children under the stairs in the box and covered them with her body. She then heard someone say, "Oh, my God! Oh, my God!" As Malcolm understood all too well, his own chickens had finally come home to roost. Two soilders from the Fruit of Islam would be convicted for his murder.

A week after Malcolm's murder, Elijah Muhammad predictably declined all responsibity at the annual Saviours Day rally in Chicago. "His foolish teaching brought him to his own end."

Sitting prominently behind the Messenger on the platform and affirming his every word was Muhammad Ali.

Two weeks after that, Ameer called the FBI and agreed to help identify the shooters. He never got the chance. The next day, he was found dead in his hotel room.


THAT WAS THE BUILD-UP TO ALI-LISTON II.

Almost every interaction people had with him was positive ... unless you were his best friend, the wife and kids of his best friend, his secretary ... etc.

I think you need to reevaluate.

The young Ali and the old Ali were quite different.

:hi:

 

^ and...?

 

And what? You said he's a great man and people's interactions with him are great. Unless Ali's buddies are blowing up your house, and you beg him to help your husband, and he blows you off and then his buddies shotgun your husband to death in front of you and your kids. And he says your husband deserved to die.

Other than that, everything was peachy.:roll:

 

Alex Wallau once said if you judged a guy by the people he surrounded himself with, you wouldn't think much of Ali. Because the people Ali surrounded himself with were scum.

He grew up eventually and actually expressed regret for all the bad things he did to people like Malcolm X.

Because HE DID THEM.

 

For sure dude:

http://www.thefightcity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Ali-in-Zaire.jpg

 

Hey...there are people out there who hate Gandhi.

Some people have their minds set, show the lack of common sense to balance the good with the bad, and you can't change their minds....

Such is life.