Sonny Liston Children?

Yeah, that was right around the time the eighth grader he got pregnant was having her baby.

:roll:

 

Can't find anything about this on google. Whats your source?

 

Somewhat in Ali's defense:

Ali was extremely stupid.
He failed the Selective Service intelligence test twice. I was drafted about the same time Ali was and took the same tests he did. A man had to be a serious fool to fail those tests. As far as intellect, he was barely functional.
He was a total pawn to the NOI. He probably didn't have sense enough to realize a lot of what was going on.

 

When did Ali ever express regret for anything he had ever done?
I've never read statements of remorse from Ali.

 

See the court case Temica Williams vs. Muhammad Ali

She was a runaway living at Deer Lake with Ali's cook, Lana Shabazz. She claimed she started a ***ual relationship with Ali when she was 12. She had a boy two years later.

But, on the birth certificate, instead of saying she was 14 or 15, she wrote 17, so they wouldn't take the child away from her.

Ali paid for the child until he married Veronica (Laila Ali's mom) and she finally had enough and made him stop. And the young woman was booted off the payroll.

She filed a suit against him for ***ual assault. But since she wasn't a minor when she filed the suit, it was dismissed. They said she'd waited too long.

The case was appealed several times. But the higher courts kept affirming she'd waited too long. Finally, she didn't show up in court once and it was booted.

She gave the child up for adoption and died of her drug addictions.

Not a nice story.

Her son later tried to see Ali, but Ali's current wife won't let him see Ali unless he signs a paper saying Muhammad Ali isn't his father. (They won't let Ali take a paternity test.)

She actually looks like Veronica Porshe in her younger days.

https://books.google.com/books?id=z...B#v=onepage&q=temica williams ali jet&f=false

And she's not to be confused with the high school junior Ali got pregnant while he was married to Belinda. The daughter from that tryst is actually welcomed in the family.

I guess getting a 16-year-old pregnant when you're married with a half-dozen kids and the most famous guy on earth isn't so bad ... but admitting you might have gotten a 12 or 13-year-old in the family way isn't kosher.

 

I never bought those selective service results. Ali is no genius but anyone can see in his interviews that his intelligence is at least average. His ability to debate and change course in mid stream even against fairly intellectual people is impressive given his background and chosen occupation. In my opinion he purposely failed those tests to avoid serving. Ive known people i would consider borderline re****ed who passed those tests and Ali is no dunce.

 

Case was dropped, no reason to believe the accusations. They aren't believable.

She could've been an opportunist.

 

I often wondered about the validity of the Selective Service tests and IQ tests in general during the 1960s and 1970s. At the time, there were people who argued that whites generally had far better IQs than blacks while citing test results to back up such claims. After much thinking about the subject and my personal experiences, I concluded that there wasn't a noticeable difference between white and black groups in terms of average native intelligence, making me more wary of claims to the contrary.

- Chuck Johnston

 

I don't think Ali was stupid. He was certainly naive and somewhat simple.
I understand the instinct to judge him harshly. There are many who drink the Kool Aid, and canonize him as a civil rights activist. He was not a saint.
Mark Kram's book is very illuminating, inluding the case of the underage girl. The story is well documented. However, as exemplified in this thread there are those who need a hero and are unwilling to accept the shades of gray that exist in reality.

However, not many could navigate the waters Ali did successfully. He did pretty for someone thrust into his position. He seems to a genuinely good person who was able to grow and do some good with attention and acclaim he recieved.

 

There's no such thing as a perfect human. You have to weigh the good with the bad. And it's not good to use a few flaws to dismiss someone as a bad person.

And I think Ali is brilliant. Genius has many forms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4aUq74I4BM

 

In a 1964 profile for The Saturday Evening Post written by Myron Cope, Cassius Jr. addressed the “white devil” concerns. “I’m stressing just the works that the whites generally have been doing. They blow up all these little colored people in church, wash down people in the street with water hoses. It’s not the color that make you a devil, just the deeds that you do,” he said. “It’s as our leader Elijah Muhammad teaches us. Couldn’t nobody argue it. I’m no authority on Islam. I am just a follower. If you be a blue race, and you do the works of the devil, then we call you a devil. You got white people who died under demonstrations, died under tractor wheels for colored people. I wouldn’t call them no devil.”


He was addressing concerns levied in this thread all the way back in 64.

 

Oops double post

 

During the 1960's, Ali addressed Ku Klux Klan rallies as a friend and ally. He urged the people who were lynching Blacks and killing white civil rights leaders to "keep up the good work".
This is by his own admission.

 

One can make the same case for Charles Manson.
'No one is perfect'...'you have to weigh the whole man'...'It's not good to use one incident to label him as a bad person'...

Ali called for race and religious murder. He applauded people who were killing Blacks and civil rights workers and urged them on. I think that is sufficient to label him a bad person, just as I think what Manson did is enough to do the same.

 

I wouldn't say pawn, as such.
Just another hopelessly brainwashed follower.

There was virtually nothing Ali said on the relevant subjects from about 1964-'75 that wasn't 100% parroting the Elijah Muhammad line.
As far as basically saying Malcolm deserved to die (for walking away from the NOI and getting involved in civil rights and exposing Elijah as a very flawed human being). Something that Ali had admitted he regrets now.

It's telling that Ali changed his tune about a year after Elijah Muhammad died, again following the new moderate line being spouted to him by Elijah's son, Wallace Warith Deen, who was assumed by most people at that time to have inherited the leadership.
That proves Ali was just a follower.

Your characterisation of Ali seems childishly naive.