David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

You might as well be saying "The moon is made of green cheese and anybody who dares to suggest otherwise is nothing at all less than a crazed nutbag!"

Statments without any evidence to back them upare meaningless.

 

I was around then, there were plenty of guys who werre not ripped.Rex Layne etc.You postulate that everyone was at their optimum weight, its total bollocks.
Fact .Marciano was at his best around 185/187lbs.

Tua turned pro as a teenager weighing over 200lbs.

If you can't see the physical difference between them , you have been wasting a lot of peoples time.

I've been debating with a poster who thinks ,Paulino Uzcudun was a "terrific puncher ".
I have only myself to blame .:hi:

 

Lennox didn't need to get on his bike, once Tua sampled a couple of his right hands, his ambition left him.

 

Agreed. But I am a bit sick of the overestimation of Rocky's output. I am lazily compiling punch stats of his filmed fights. Many, many rounds he throws around 30 punches... and guess what? many of those punches are of the pitter pat sort, in close punches merely meant to keep his opponent busy...

I really like and appreciate Marciano but the levels of self deception and delusion some of his proponents stoop to is unrivaled in the sport's history. I really like guys telling me that first hand knowledge I have of a fighter, a fighter I have seen train and fight at close distance, is incorrect. That gives me a real kick.

 

Yeah, I'm getting to know the feeling.

 

You miss understand me. I never said anything about optimum weight. All I
Said was as a starting point there was 10 between them, which is true. To go on and say with the same training programme there is no reason why that 10lb gap would grow the 30 40 pounds it did in 1990s gyms. Both starting in 1947 why would it?

Naturaly there was a difference between them physically all I am saying in the 1950s it would have been 10-12 pounds tops. I don't see Tua getting any bigger or being any better than the talented tongan Kitone Lave had he been around then.

 

:good:good:good:good

 

Elroy and ruusak and sks1963...crazed nincompoops.

 

Good observation.

You know I often wondered why Tua did not fight the Ross Purrity's, Francois Botha's, and Klitschko's that were at the top of the HW list from say 1998 to the mid 2000s & beyond. Before a fighter can ascend into such mythic levels he must (in my little mind at least) take on all the top fighters of his era. It seems to be that Tua did not do so. I am not saying he ducked these guys, only that I cannot understand why he did not fight them.

In truth, I feel that he could have given these four contenders above a darn good fight. The way Tua readily despatched John Ruiz, Michael Moorer, & Obed Sullivan proves that he packed a power punch that could send anyone to Dreamland. True, these four were stand up types who did not have the footwork to escape a barrage of punches nor did they have a great jab to ward off an on charging slugger. But they were decent enough fighters and his victories over them were memorable thereby making his career one that is highly respectable.

But ATG? Nah, I don't think he quite belongs in that category. As to why his popularity reaches the mythic proportions he enjoys on this forum, well maybe someone else can explain how he managed to earn it despite not having fought the very best of his era.

 

Its just Samoan genetics, yeah they built him up when he was younger but they are big built, the older tua just couldn't shift the weight no matter how good a shape they try tho say he got himself in for the Cameron and Ustinov fights. He also lost power in his comeback fights, if he had been taught to use his feet to get in close like a young Tyson he would have done better but he was trained by holy fields trainers and basically boxed with the same style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ZVZ79QR30

 

:deal

 

What if I said that Tony Galento was only fat because of New Jersey genetics?

A fighter is only ever fat for one reason at this level.

That is because they have a poor work ethic!

 

I frequented a predominantly PI neighborhood for 4 or 5 years in West Seattle, WA. Those folks are just plain huge and they well know it. David is on the small side in fact. Sorry, not all gene pools are the same.

Tua was in great shape at 225 and could go all night.

 

Tua had potential, i liked what he had, I thought he was plenty big enough at 201lb. He could fight and he could punch. nice shoulder roll and a deadly left hook. Tua was a good contender but not a world beater. Sometimes you get fighters that posess some of the components that make a great fighter but not all of them. This is exactly what Tua was.

Its pretty clear by the end of a career to distinguish if a fighter realy had it or not. To say he could have made it another era with extra advantages of weight is a step too far, it does not wash. Whatever was missing in the actual time the fighter existed in would have been exploited by a great fighter at any other time because all great fighters are the exception to the rule.

There is always an exception. Great champions are exceptional so its no good championing the merets of a "merely good" contender against an "exceptional champion".

Rocky Marciano had two handed power and he never had a problem landing punches against faster, slippery fighters so he wont be missing Tua who Felix Savon took out with one punch.

As for Rocky being underpowered in this match we have all seen underpowered, spoilong maulers frustrate fighters with a better better size advantage. Remember spoilers like journeymen big foot martin and frankie swindle? Nobody could really take out good versions of those two and they were just trial horses. At the very least Marciano could maul much, much better than that only he was also a relentless ATG hitter.

Tua was not a thinker. If he was made to think he would just stop and watch. mostly Tua was a rhythm fighter. Rolling and punching in sequence along a pattern where as Rocky could pick his spots, draw a man in and counter as well as brawling with pressure.

Marciano just had a better engine, better focus. An exceptional fighter who in many ways defied logic, unless you study him close enough to arive at the same conclusion as I have have. He beats Tua.

 

Can't say I agree, but I take my hat off to your dedication to Marciano's cause.