Bob Fitzsimmon vs. Jim Corbett (speed corrected / HD)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Feb 22, 2016.


  1. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    If anything the clip illustrates how much the sport has progressed.
     
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I couldnt get it to render in true HD and still publish in youtube so this is the best quality I could get on Youtube. Im not even convinced Youtube can truly do true HD but thats a different discussion.

    [url]https://youtu.be/LAPBsPVgW1A[/url]

    This is a rundown I wrote about this project two years ago on another site:

    Ive got a real pristine copy of this film and Ive always wanted to play around with it to make it more watchable. Its pretty interesting because in doing so Ive discovered a lot about this film.
    Its always been said that this film originally ran over 100 minutes. Thats not true. In reality the film originally ran 67 minutes long. It essentially had about 10 minutes of footage before the fight starting either right after Fitzsimmons entered the ring, or right after Corbett (who entered last) entered the ring, the full fight including the breaks between rounds, and about ten minutes of footage after Corbett is counted out, much of which is apparently lost. What we are left with is roughly six minutes of the pre fight footage, about half of round 1, about five second of round 2 (which encompasses just the end of the round). All of round 3, all or most of round 4, most of round 5 (missing maybe a few seconds), most of round 6, 2 minutes of round 7, all or most of round 8, and 35 second of round 9. From another source of this film I was able to tack on the knockout and a few seconds of the post fight footage which shows Fitzsimmons waving to the audience and Corbett's handlers climbing into the ring.
    What we are missing is apparently some pre fight footage of referee George Siler introducing some of the officials, and an attempt by Corbett to shake hands with Fitzsimmons which is refused. We are possibly missing the entrance of Corbett into the ring but Im not 100 percent convinced that Corbett's entrance was ever captured on film as some reports say the cameras were started after both Fitz and Corbett had entered the ring. We are also missing those rounds not mentioned above, and most of the post fight footage which apparently showed Corbett rush across the ring after the fight and strike Fitzsimmons, as well as the ring getting filled up with spectators before the local law enforcement cleared it.
    The film in its current state jumps around quite a bit in the aperture which makes for difficult ****ysis (something I am fixing now) but according to contemporary accounts this was a problem even when it was "new."
    Another interesting myth that has been dispelled is that it is often said that the man in the foreground of the film is famous western gunfighter Bat Masterson. This is not true. The timekeeper at the bell is William Muldoon, to his right in the film is Lou Houseman, Fitzsimmons' timekeeper, and to Muldoon's left is Corbett's timekeeper Colville. Fitzsimmons and his timekeeper had a prearranged signal whereby Houseman would raise his hat ten seconds prior to the end of the round in order to warn Fitz. Sure enough this is depicted clearly in the film. Another interesting sidelight is Corbett dancing around the ring in his robe prior to the fight in order to test the canvas (looks just like what fighters still do). Its an interesting film but I wish we had more of the later rounds when Corbett started to tire and Fitz started to come on. From what we have it looked like Corbett hurt Fitz in the fifth and sixth and wore himself out trying to finish him. I agree with contemporary reports that state that Corbett was ahead and the better boxer, at least from the extent footage we have of the fight. As it stands we have roughly 28 minutes of the original 67.


    Finally finished this project. Whew, it turned out to be more difficult than I thought as I was able to find footage from one more round. We now have footage from rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, what I believe is round 11, and round 14. From what I can gather the knockout clip no longer exists in its original form and only exists on a 16mm transfer made by Jim Jacobs which is cropped, pan and scanned, and of poor photographic quality. I have contacted several film archives around the world and apparently the version I have is the most complete version and all other versions seem to derive from this original source. I edited a bunch of pre fight material in illustrating the buildup of the fight using photographs and original drawings that appeared in newspapers at the time. I also edited in slow motion highlights between some rounds using the closer, clearer cropped footage, new intertitles, and illustrated what happened in the ring afterwards using the original newspaper illustrations, photographs, and advertisements for the original veriscope film. It turned out really nice and runs 1 hour. Im not sure what Im going to do with it yet (if anything) until I can talk to the owner but as it stands its the most complete record of the fight currently in existence.
     
  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I dont get it. What I uploaded isnt even as good quality as what I rendered which wasnt true HD to begin with. Frustrating.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Very good. Corbett is very hard to catch with a lead. He moves out of the way, ducks, or blocks it.

    I only watched 60 seconds or so. Do you have the Corbett knockdown shown?
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Very good. I have 26 minutes and change myself. Corbett and Fitz are shown in my footage in the ring with their robes on. Corbett loves the camera. Fitz doesn't seem to care. My film copy has a heated dispute with Siler and the timekeeper. At the very end of the film, you can see Jeffries walking by the ring.

    One of the problems of the film is the angle they are shooting at sometimes has a glare, likely because the camera was facing the sun.

    There is also an up close view toward the very end. Fitz looks fierce up close.
     
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Awesome stuff guys, thanks.

    Fitzsimmons's book also provides a good way to understand exactly how he's operating here: ([url]https://archive.org/details/physicalculture00fitzgoog[/url]). For example, it makes sense of some of the weirder footwork and body mechanics on the film, like mentioning that he puts his weight on his rear foot, standing on the ball of his front foot while keeping his rear foot flat (the opposite of most Western boxers from any period in history before or since).

    The extreme emphasis placed on feints and jockeying for position is on full display here. Not surprising in Corbett's case, since he's up against a murderous puncher using horsehair gloves that weigh about the same as modern MMA gloves.

    In reznick's clip, there's a section where you can see that it's a bit easier to slip punches from the smaller gloves; Fitz isn't moving his head as much, but he still lets one of Corbett's leads slide by without doing as much damage as it otherwise would.
     
  7. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    What error are you getting?

    Your version looks great. It has the"shaky cam"effect removed, which is awesome. And the slow motion clips are amazing.

    Somethings not right in your workflow, since it's a 480p video. You should check the dimensions of your original clip, and compare it to the dimensions of your rendered clip you're uploading to youtube.

    You should be able to right click the file, and go to properties to see the dimensions.

    I'm assuming whatever you used to compress the original scaled it down, but we can figure this out.
     
  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Youtube also takes time to process uploads. The video goes live at 240p, then the video slowly rolls in 360p, 480p, 720p, and 1080p within 30 minutes or so.

    Are you still seeing this discrepancy?
     
  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Look at Corbett grinning while ducking that hook in slow mo. lol, cheeky mofo.
     
  11. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Ill have to take a closer look when i get back home. If you search "corbett fitzsimmons klompton" you will find the post i made at another forum outlining this and including stills. You can see from the stills its a good 50% better than what youtube is posting. Ill post a snippet of Gans-Nelson 1 as well but its not as clear. The original print wasnt great even 110 yrs ago and the century since hasnt been kind to it. Even so its still better than whats been seen before on it and you can still see the fighters ability.
     
  12. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Cool I'll check it out. I also recommend watermarking this stuff you're uploading.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Corbett can't miss him with that jab, neither can he slow his forward march.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    He's also rough in the clinches and uses his elbow on Fitz's neck to get out of one.

    Corbett could quickly duck and deliver a straight right or left hand to the body, then get out of the way. A unique skill displayed among heavyweights? Maybe!
     
  15. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    [url]https://youtu.be/OGGenLpXA-k[/url]

    I dont know. I cant figure it out. Its frustrating. This one looks worse than the Fitz clip.