Joe Calzaghe or Ricardo López: which had the greater career?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016.


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  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    :deal


    Final records:


    • Finito - 51-0-1, 38 KO's.

    • Pride of Wales - 46-0, 32 KO's.

    Shining moments in their legacies:


    • Finito - 1-0-1 against Rosendo Álvarez, two-round destruction of future long reigning light flyweight champion Sorjaturong, another two-round destruction of Taiwanese-Japanese contender Rocky Lin, comfortable decision over solid titlist Grigsby to become a 2-division champ, wide decision over future 2-division champ Guardia, battered 2-time straw champ Alex Sanchez, and had a record of 6-0 (4) versus unbeaten opponents in world title bouts (Álvarez, Lin, Guardia + Kwang-Su Oh, Pongsawang, and Saengmorakot).

    • Pride of Wales - UD over prime Kessler, UD + knockdown over legendary but sliding Eubank Jr., SD over Handsome Robin, invented the phrase "___ got Lacy'ed™", UD over Sakio Bika (perhaps the most comfortably anyone ever beat the Scorpion), two stoppages of Mario Veit, stoppages of passing-fair blokes like Sheika & Woodhall, and split and unanimous decisions respectively over legendary but aging 43 year old Hopkins and 39 year old RJJ (but suffered 1st round knockdowns from both).

    Frequently said to have ducked:


    • Finito - Michael Carbajal & Humberto González, two peers that could have easily put his résumé on hallowed, untouchable ground. Fights could've been made, but weren't. Some have argued it was actually Carbajal that ducked him, in an undying cyclical debate a'la Pryor & Leonard.

    • Pride of Wales - Glencoffe Johnson (rejected numerous offers), prime RJJ (not even up for debate, Calzaghe's on record admitting it outright), Clinton Woods (turned down a million, a sum Joe had never previously seen except versus Lacy, fought Bika instead for much less), and the probably-deserved rematch with Reid.
     
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
    #1
  2. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Lopez, hands down.
     
    Rumsfeld, Feb 25, 2016
    Rumsfeld, Feb 25, 2016
    #2
  3. captain hook

    captain hook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Finito was maybe even greater fighter, but its a minimum weight which is not so strong and popular as other divisions.
     
    captain hook, Feb 25, 2016
    captain hook, Feb 25, 2016
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  4. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    Calzaghe never admitted to ducking Jones.

    He was said in June 2003 he would fight him if he got paid handsomely for it. Bare in mind Jones' most recent fight then was at Heavyweight and Calzaghe was still at Super Middleweight fighting Bryon Mitchell that month so there was no call for the fight.

    Jones' run at Super Middleweight also ended before Calzaghe's began. So there was no offers from Jones for Calzaghe to duck. And when they was in the same weight class a shot bloated Calzaghe schooled him.

    He also signed to fight Johnson but had to pull out with injuries. And nobody really cared back then anyway, because Johnson wasn't far removed from losing to the likes of Branco, Shieka, Harmon and Gonzalez. Calzaghe has beaten Shieka, and Reid and Woodhall where considered better than the guys Johnson was losing too.
     
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
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  5. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    Just exposed your self as an alt much? :think
     
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
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  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
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  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Okay, rebuttals on the ducking points made, now make an informed case for him rating above Finito. :deal
     
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
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  8. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Both polls probably boil down to Calzaghe guzzlers vs Calzaghe haters, though, sadly. Calzaghe fans are like a weird nationalistic cult of trolls, and his haters are almost just as bad.

    I'd go so far as to say most people voting in these polls never even saw a single Lopez fight.

    :smoke
     
    Rumsfeld, Feb 25, 2016
    Rumsfeld, Feb 25, 2016
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  9. BEATDOWNZ

    BEATDOWNZ Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Why did Joe TRAVEL to America in 2008 for a fight with Roy?

    Why wasn't the 90's or early 00's any good?

    How come Joe travelled to the states in '08 for a fight with Roy, but already admitted on his book a few years prior that a fight between the two would be pointless due to Roy being past it?
     
    BEATDOWNZ, Feb 25, 2016
    BEATDOWNZ, Feb 25, 2016
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  10. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    I'd say if you just compare what they did at Super Middleweight and Strawweight then it's fairly even.

    Both men are clearly the GOAT of the division. Both made the record number of defenses. Both won all 4 titles major titles.

    However I think the best competition Calzaghe faced was stronger than what Lopez faced overall. And I think Calzaghe going into Hopkins back garden and beating Hopkins and Joe Cortez in a handicap match (given what Hopkins would go onto achieve) trumps Lopez light flyweight run, and saw Joe collect a second lineal title trumps it in his favor.


    (p.s. Berol Gee will be here any minute)
     
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
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  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    ...and Hans, you spoke your piece on ducking Jones or Johnson, but - you didn't think Reid deserved a rematch? Or that Calzaghe vs. Woods in the UK was a more lucrative proposal than largely unknown Bika? :think
     
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
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  12. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    Why did Mayweather fight Pacquiao after Pacquiao got ko'd by Marquez and Mayweather claimed it would be a mismatch? :think

    A lot can happen in a few years, such as Calzaghe becoming past his best himself (which he was) and Jones blazing the comeback trail and looking imperious against the kind of opposition he fought in his prime (which he did)
     
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
    Super Hans, Feb 25, 2016
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  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I dunno, Hans. If you consider their work at straw and super middle even, then we should look at their expansion into other divisions for a tiebreaker. López at light fly versus Calzaghe at light heavy. Edge in 'big names' to Calzaghe, but ...43 & 39, and he got dropped in both encounters. López on the other hand continued his dominance from straw with seamless continuity and was 3-0 (2) in world title bouts. :think
     
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
    IntentionalButt, Feb 25, 2016
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  14. Jpreisser

    Jpreisser Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Granted you call the reigns even and use their work above their initial weight classes as a tiebreaker, I'd say Calzaghe takes it. Lopez may have continued looking dominant in a bogus 108-pound division, but Calzaghe became "the man" at 175 and beat Hopkins, a significantly better fighter than Lopez ever faced.
     
    Jpreisser, Feb 25, 2016
    Jpreisser, Feb 25, 2016
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  15. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    I'm leaning towards Zaggers but Finito was the better fighter by far IMO.
     
    Cafe, Feb 25, 2016
    Cafe, Feb 25, 2016
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