Johnson rated Walcott the greatest fighter of all

Agreed. Who you lost and drew to is part of how a fighter should be judged.

 

Its not debateable that Walcott never beat Gans or Langford. Its not debateable that Walcott had FAR more losses and draws in FAR less fights than Greb. Its not debateable that Walcott never beat anyone as good as Greb. Its not debateable that lost to worse men in his prime than Greb and worse men than Greb lost to in his prime. Its not debateable that Greb beat several men as good as Walcott or better. The only thing that I said that is remotely debateable is that Walker was a better fighter than Walcott, and I conceded that was debateable but I also added and would continue to add that I would put Walker's record up against Walcott's any day of the weak under any criteria you want.

 

Tommy Loughran?

 

Who you fight is less important than who you actually defeat. I thought that would be pretty obvious. I understand some people dont get that. Its why guys like Chuvalo have a cult. He fought all of these great fighters but couldnt beat any of them. Greb actually managed to beat tons of great fighters and did so multiple times. I could come up with a laundry list of those opponents off the top of my head. His fantastic opposition and record against them is why hes rated so highly. Im still waiting for someone to list me Walcotts best win. Was it Choynski? Do we really want to debate that Choynski was better than Greb or anyone he beat? I'll take that argument all day long.

 

You keep bringing up Joe Borrell. Do you even know anything about Joe Borrell at all or the fight he won against Greb? No? I didnt think so. As usual you just keep popping off. Borrell was a highly regarded MW contender who was always in great shape, extremely durable, and very hard hitting. When he beat Greb he was scheduled to fight another fighter who showed up sick. Greb was in the audience and had not prepared for a fight but took the fight on a moments notice. The year before beating Greb he had almost killed former WW championship claimant Harry Lewis and left him crippled for life. The guy was so rugged and tough that not long after defeating Greb he entered the ring against MW champion Al McCoy with a broken arm, fought one handed and still went the distance. Over his career he defeated several talented fighters, former champions, and of course a future champion in Greb. Maybe you should educate yourself on these guys before speaking about men you know nothing about. I realize that you dont study anything outside of Australia (and even then you only study those sources that jive with your unique revisionist views) but you really should broaden your horizens a bit before you speak so as not to appear so foolish.

 

I understand your point, and you're correct in some of your points. Still though, I'd like an answer if you could, are Sam and Joe Gans better fighters than anybody on Greb's resume from an ATG point of view?

Who are the fighters that you feel are better than Walcott that greb beat?

I would say Greb has more quality wins than Walcott, though I'd still say, regardless of wins or losses... one could make the argument that they both had equally good names on their resume.

 

he's right up there... I just happen to think the two I mentioned were better all time h2h

 

I'd love to see footage of Barbados. I imagine him to be a bit like Gans on film.

I'd also have loved it if he didn't ever dive for cash, not saying he did but if we knew for a fact he didn't it would make ****ysing his losses easier (obviously dismissing any losses to HW opposition)

 

Tom O Rourke ,his manager had a bad reputation .

 

I have no problem rating Mike Gibbons on par with Gans and Ive already said I rate Walker higher than Walcott to name just two. I think there are others every bit as good if not better than Walcott.

 

Okay, you have Mike Gibbons on par with Gans (don't agree, but I can see it). Now who is on par with Sam (which is who I also asked you about).

 

And Jack Dillon. Maybe brother Tommy too. And Flowers. Nah Walcott don't take this.

Langford was what 20, 21? His third year as pro maybe second in practice?

At that stage holding Walcott to a draw was a feat for him nevermind possibly edging him.

So is there someone comparable to Sam on Greb's resume? Literally speaking no. But do you count Fidel LaBarba amongst one of Jimmy McLarnin's best opponents? Obvious exaggeration but equally misleading IMO.

 

I think Walker is up there with Langford. Jack Dillon, Mike Gibbons. I dont see what Gans or Langford did that was so much more impressive than those three. If you care to elaborate Id enjoy hearing it. But again, the fact is that Walcott didnt beat those guys. Greb beat his best opponents. Walcott did no better than draw with them and in both cases he was arguably the loser. And in all of those cases Im picking guys that matchup well with Gans, Walcott, and Langford. I think there were others who may not have been "as great" or as talented p4p but for different reasons were more difficult.

 

I don't rate Walker than high .. a terrific warrior but a level below Langford for sure ... I think Walcott is being a bit underrated here as well .. past his best he drew with terrific versions of Langford and Gans, two of the best fighters ever regardless of weight. I love Greb but I don't see him having beating anyone on that level. I would like to be able to study Walcott more but Langford, Gans and Johnson all raved about him so there must be something there .. Didn't Langford say that Walcott was the hardest hitter he ever fought ?