Johnson rated Walcott the greatest fighter of all

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by gregluland, Feb 26, 2016.


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  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    That's all mainly because you're desperate to suck Harry Greb's k nob end
     
    PowerPuncher, Feb 26, 2016
    PowerPuncher, Feb 26, 2016
    #31
  2. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How did Greb Beat his best opponents? Splitting a series with fighters is not beating a fighter. Finishing on your feet in a fight which has no official decision to determine is also NOT beating your opponent. In fact, Greb actually beat virtually no one.

    What Greb did do is NOT lose to many very, very good fighters with a schedule that arguably nobody else could have replicated. Still, if you want to believe that Greb is better than Walcott, it is Greb who has to rely on a leap of faith and reading old newspapers, making excuses etc, not the other way around. In many instances this is validated, and it may very well be that he was better than Walcott, but it also may be that he wasnt.

    These are two truly great fighters. Personally i dont rate either as no 1, but they are both in the discussion.
     
    Boilermaker, Feb 26, 2016
    Boilermaker, Feb 26, 2016
    #32
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, if Chuvalo has a "cult" it would be because he was a tough guy who always came to fight, was conditioned to go the distance, and tried his heart out in spite of his limitations. Fans appreciate fighters who make an effort and show heart.
     
    Unforgiven, Feb 26, 2016
    Unforgiven, Feb 26, 2016
    #33
  4. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I would say you could argue the Walcott was better than Tunney but Klomp won't accept that, he forgets we are talking about a little guy here, he will mention and conceed that Walcott weighs less than virtually all the names he fought but never mention that on top of that he is FIVE FOOT ONE and a half INCHES tall but ooohhh nooooooo that's not an excuse.... All we have from Klompton are assertions not facts.... he is butthurt the poor chap.
     
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    #34
  5. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I would say you are right, he must have taken money in at least a couple of cases, must have in the Tommy West fight, now West was no slouch but it's clear the fight was fixed according to Boxrec.
     
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    #35
  6. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Then you are on your own, Gans is possibly the best lightweight of all time, Gibbons not even the best in his weight class in his own dat according to quite a few contemporaries, I concede he is good but better than Gans ? You let your guard down here and exposed yourself. Walker is a better option but I seriously doubt he is better than Walcott. You are a man of many bias's and one of them is obviously towards the era Walcott is from, next thing you will be even saying Young Griffo was ordinary.
     
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    #36
  7. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am calling up Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson to tell him that an alternate universe has been discovered, a universe in which Jack Dillon is compared to the likes of Gans and Langford, hell he isn't even in Choynski's class or in Mysterious Billy Smiths (there is a guy who was probably at least as good as Walker and Gibbons)... well at least in this universe but the entire scientific community will be excited over this discovery of yours. I made this to be a serious thread not one for comedy but anyway.
    Jack Dillon, don't be absurd.
     
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    #37
  8. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You win first prize, best post here :lol::lol: you also win the truth telling contest, Klompton has lost the plot
     
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    #38
  9. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Great to see you again Boiler. Yes it has to be said these ND bouts are a stain on boxing history, the amount of 6 round ones he had simply have to be ignored and so do 8 round jokes, notice Les Darcy never fought these and always went in 20 round fights yet he is dismissed here by The Klompton's (a clan of stand up comedians). Klompton is really licking his wounds but serves him right for trying to make this Walcott thread all about Greb.
     
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    gregluland, Feb 26, 2016
    #39
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    :rofl
     
    Unforgiven, Feb 26, 2016
    Unforgiven, Feb 26, 2016
    #40
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I tend to dismiss any points decision below ten rounds as I don't feel it's enough yo show supremacy.

    Reading ND fights I give credit to the victor but I do not take credit away from the lose because technically they only had to avoid being knocked out.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 27, 2016
    lufcrazy, Feb 27, 2016
    #41
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I just think the "newspaper decisions" were more open to corruption than judges's even.
    At least when the judges are bribed we usually have the press to query the decision. But when the press are doubling up as the de facto judges (and therefore the ones who attract the bribes) that's a recipe for TOTAL corruption.
     
    Unforgiven, Feb 27, 2016
    Unforgiven, Feb 27, 2016
    #42
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I actually think Walcott gets overrated. He was lucky to get draws out of Gans and Langford I think. He was lucky in some of the many title draws he had. Could have been "wearing the cuffs" but if there is reason to believe he carried fighters of this quality then he'd be the greatest fighter ever indeed.

    I've never seen any evidence, though.

    It's not just the great fighters, either. He may - may - have been lucky to get the draw with Billy Woods, tough but limited; Woods had him in trouble in the sixteenth.

    He got the better of Peter Jackson career-wise, but i've read at least one report that said the crowd favoured a Jackson decision in the title fight and another that has Walcott clinching and clinching towards the end of that fight - another draw. He then straight up battered Moses Lawhatever, but then boxed draws with Langford and Gans - only one of these was for the title, can't remember which. Then he loses the title to Honey Melody, not a great fighter (but a very good one).

    That's not a great title performance. I acknowledge that he's about more than his title run in terms of his p4p credentials which are signficant (i ranked him #30) but I don't think he's even vaguely p4p top ten material. I can't see any reason at all to rank him ahead of Langford or Greb, or even Barney Ross tbh with you.


    However, the article was very interesting to read. Always is when Jack's yapping.
     
    McGrain, Feb 27, 2016
    McGrain, Feb 27, 2016
    #43
  14. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Some guys like a Tyson are meteors and others are built for distance .. some meteors are forced to stay around long past their best because of financial issues .. Walcott was clearly one of those .. he was clearly a dominant fighter for the first fourteen years of his career .. from 1890 to 1904 he was a monster .. after the age of 30 and the hand injury he was simply not the same, not hard to imagine given the handicaps in size he was forced to fight with.. again, three of the greatest fighters that ever lived in Johnson, Gans and Langford all raved about the man .. that says enough to me ..
     
    he grant, Feb 27, 2016
    he grant, Feb 27, 2016
    #44
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, he was one of the best p4p of his era.

    That's going to bring forth serious admirations of a fighter's peers.

    He is also one of the greatest fighters of all time. That helps too!

    Maybe he was past-prime for his entire title reign - my guess would be though that Smith and Lavigne were the best p4p he faced in what you are calling his prime and he lost to both. This matters if we are comparing him to Greb and Langford and Fitzsimmons and company. He beat a super-middle power-puncher in Choynski and that's maybe his best real terms win and is enormously impressive. He shared a series with West in his prime and is recorded as having lost to him twice. West was bigger mind you. It's a shame West's series doesn't spill into his past-prime (as you see it) to test that thinking.
     
    McGrain, Feb 27, 2016
    McGrain, Feb 27, 2016
    #45
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