Which heavyweight champion hurt his legacy the most by retiring in his prime or near

No one ever hurt their legacy by retiring, unless you mean financial gain.

 

Massive difference to hi legacy if he beats Sharkey, Schmelling and Carnera... maybe even Baer if he fought the right gameplan and Baer wasn't on form.

 

I'll say Jeffries because he didn't fight the black contenders of his day although Marciano isn't far off.

I don't see a reason to include Tunney and Spinks in this discussion. They made their legacy at smaller weights, accomplishments at heavy are just an extra.

 

It's a double edged sword though. Because if you choose to stick around, there's always the chance you'll lose and a few cracks in your armour will be exposed. Certainly in the case of Tunney and Marciano (and Jeffries before the ill-advised comeback), I'd say these guys secured their legacies precisely by retiring when they did. They retired at the top, unconquered, and any doubts about them were just speculative. Suppose Tunney had stayed on and lost to Schmeling or Sharkey, or Marciano had lost to Patterson (all possibilities). Their legacies wouldn't be what they are now.

 

Michael Spinks was nowhere near prime when he retired. Prime was at 175.. And the one who saw his last fight against Tyson had appeared only once in two years, hadn't faced a live opponent in quite some time and was 32 years old.

 

Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Tunney would have been favourite to beat the next three champs,imo so I pick him.
Jeffries could and should have fought better opposition than Finnegan and Munroe,his standing with me would have been considerably enhanced if he had fought Martin,Johnson ,and McVey.
Marciano did all that could be asked of him, he was having back problems and distrusted Weill, he was smart to go when he did. Spinks was done too imo, his knees were shot. His choice of challengers revealed his thoughts on being a long term champion at Heavyweight.

I agree. Jeffries and Tunney had more to give.

I don't think Jeffries felt Munroe was his last fight. The money and lack of competition in general was why Jeffries retired.

Tunney retired because he was handed a million dollar check, and the fans really didn't care for his renaissance man persona.

 

Tunney was knocked out by an over the hill out of shape Dempsey so he knew time was up.

I don't really know much about Jeffries.

Marciano started old and would have hung around for a year then lost to Patterson simply because Patterson was fresh and knocking everyone out.

Spinks lost his touch but could have stayed around for a little longer.

 

Featherfisted Tommy Hurricane Jackson gave Patterson a tough go the first time around.

The Rock would have jumped on Patterson and got him out of there quick. In fact, not getting crushed at a young age by Marciano, might have been the best thing in the long run for Patterson.

 

WTF ???

Herol, you need to get a picture of a hole in the ground and one of your as$, and study them both carefully till you can tell them apart.

Rocky had never heard of Ali when he retired.

It would be another five years till Cassius Clay won the Light heavyweight gold medal at the Olympics.

By the time Clay was a ranked contender, Rocky would have been 40.
Absolutely ancient by the standards of the day.

Maybe Rocky feared facing George Foreman as well.

Or Mike Tyson.

 

Tunney is the only one of those four who was still clearly improving at the time he retired, and his finale with Tom Heeney was his career best performance.

Gene was no Loughran when it came to punch resistance and quick recovery if he was caught. Sharkey would have not been able to defeat Tunney as he suddenly knocked Tommy senseless in their first bout.

See what Loughran did to Max Baer for answers as to how Maxie would have done with Gene. Schmeling was too reactive for Tunney's brand of initiative.

Defending once or twice annually at most, and with the level of intelligence and discipline he had, I not only believe Gene would have retained the title for years, but that when he finally did get dethroned, he'd make Joe Louis go to the final bell to take it via decision.


Jim Jeffries wasn't about to be dethroned. Unlike Tunney, he might have been more susceptible to decline with the color barrier in place though.


Part of Marciano's mythology I think may be the fact he did NOT opt for 50-0 when everybody knew it was his for the taking. He was slightly in decline, but the fact remains Patterson wouldn't dare move up to HW until Rocky was gone. With the Mongoose repelled though, only numbers were left for Marciano to accumulate. In terms of substance, there was really nothing left for him to gain.


Michael Spinks had already gone much farther than anybody believed possible, and I do not recall anybody being surprised at how Tyson dispatched him. Factoring in the expected outcome and massive final payday he got in the process, Michael's retirement was about as perfectly timed as a quick knockout defeat finale could have been. It's an afterthought, an epilogue to his career.

 

I agree. But he also in my opinion probably lost the most. Unlike most on this board the casual fan only memory of Spinks is being destroyed by Tyson, or the couple wins against a old Holmes. Most casual fans probably know nothing of his great Lt.heavy career.

 

Good call and I tend to agree with everything here. Nothing more to add. :good

In order: Jeffries, Tunney, Marciano, Spinks

 

:good


Half of the people mentioned are lauded for retiring unbeaten.
One is remembered by most for an unfortunate return and the last for limping into the ring to get mugged.

 

Jeffries had no credible white challengers to make money with , and he emphatically refused to defend against the best black fighters.So, not wanting to risk another financial debacle like his last fight with no- hoper Jack Munroe he retired.
Tunney had financial incentives to fight on, but had had made his money, married an heiress and was never in love with game to start with.I think he could have beaten his three successors,and this would have massively enhanced his standing to a lock top ten place.Tunney is my pick .