Carlos Monzon vs Sugar Ray Leonard

Any one of those guys would be Monzons best win easily. Is it that crazy to not be as impressed with monzon as everyone else is? Should we all have the same opinion out here?

And yeah, I guess you could call me a newb. You got a problem with that?

 

Oh no, not at all,...but you should try learning something about boxing if you can,.....You got a problem with that?

 

I'm watching...I know a little but no I'm not an expert. Do you have an integral knowledge of every sport you watch? My guess is no. Does that mean you can't have an opinion? I grew up playing basketball and baseball but I enjoy watching classic boxing the most which is why I post here. My main objective is to read other peoples opinions who know more than I, which is why I'm not afraid to throw my own remedial opinion out there. I learn more if you can convincingly tell me why I'm wrong as opposed to just telling me I'm ignorant

 

he's just uninformed but I wouldnt necessarily label him a troll

Duran, too short, too fat
Leonard would give more of a challenge but knowing him, would falter once the going got rough and starts hitting the deck (see the Norris fight)

Hearns could conceivably win with his blistering jab and edge in speed

But could he maintain his lead into the late rounds

Hagler because he was above the rest of the field, and fights left handed, has the best chance (no weaknesses, no ****py chin, no shortage of stamina)

 

Tell me why, friend, is it inconceivable that the Duran than looked great against Hagler in 83, the same year he dominated Sibson and scypion arguably his two most impressive performances could have a shot against monzon?

 

I called your opinion ignorant...I didn't call YOU ignorant....and by the way, ignorant isn't the same as stupid. I've been following boxing for 50+ years, so that's my area of expertise...and I couldn't care less for other sports...except for female MMA, which, like you to boxing, I am a beginner.

 

Well, many believe that Marv was overly cautious against Duran. For one thing, he was afraid of getting thumbed like Davey Moore was (and I personally think Hagler's misgivings were well-founded) and two, he was wary of getting countered by Duran's right hand.

Maybe Hagler was overly cautious or maybe not. Duran fought well and years later put the big and tough Iran Barkely down en route to a decision.
But Monzon is a different fighter to Hagler. Different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think the legendary Panamanian does very well against Monzon.

 

What do you think monzon does better than hagler? Watching them both I feel like Hagler is quicker, stronger, more accurate and agressive

 

I wouldn't call myself a beginner I've been watching boxing my whole life I just don't know how to break down what I'm seeing like yous guys

 

Yeah, I think Monzon beats Duran considerably more easily. Hagler was only 2 inches taller than Duran. Roberto once remarked with surprise that Hagler was barely any bigger than himself.

Monzon was six feet tall and had a superior reach to Hagler. (Haven't checked mind you.) He was very formidable doing the basics and keeping a guy just at the range he wanted him.

I do feel that Hagler was better at a lot of things than Monzon, and truthfully I don't know who was ultimately better, but against the short Duran I think Monzon's outside game and superior reach give him a decided advantage over Roberto.

 

Monzon's gaunt frame was deceptive...he was a big, strong middleweight at least as strong if not more so than Hagler..that was Briscoe's opinion too, and he fought them both. He was the coolest of customers who was expert in fighting his fight and keeping the opponent from fighting his...his ring intelligence is what set him apart. He used rather simple means....rarely anything fancier than a one-two,...but he knew exactly when to use certain punches...fought taller and utilized his reach, in my estimation, as well as or better than anyone. Didn't frontline Bob Foster, Jackson or Benn-like power, but hit hard enough for his purposes until arthritis in his hands caused him to adapt his style and become more methodical in his latter years, somewhat like Marciano had to do. Monzon was more purposeful, more resolved, and more clever than Hagler, with better ring generalship....not outwardly as exciting as Marvin, but rather, a colder, more calculating fighter...a deceptive strategist, if you will.

 

Duran would have received a protracted beating over 9 or 10 rounds by the '74-'75 Monzon,.wheras the '71, '72 version would have torn his head off...and was much bigger, stronger and rangier than Duran....Roberto wouldn't have been able to do a thing after the 4th or 5th round vs Monzon.

 

you have a good point. it was the year Hagler peaked or close to it

However, because Hagler did not fight up to his true capabilities, we did not see what Hagler was really capable of (as seen in the Sibson & scypion fights)

In other words, Hagler came down to his level whereas he gave a true effort in the Hamsho rematch, Hearns fight. That was the true Hagler although no longer at his peak

as I said before, Duran is too short, past his prime and as we saw in the Hearns fight, cannot reach such a tall opponent

 

Yeah, right, so Leonard just retired and had one fight in 5 years just waiting for an active guy who hadn't lost in 11 years to look vulnerable so he could come out of retirement without a tuneup and fight him. Makes perfect sense.

It was a hell of a lot more brave for Leonard to come out of what was essentially a 5 year retirement off of a near career ending eye injury and face one of the best fighters in the world than it was for Hagler to fight a guy coming up 2 weight classes who had one fight in 5 years. Somehow that gets twisted around to "poor Hagler" LOL. The idea that Leonard was just so wiley and so devious that he KNEW his skills hadn't eroded one bit over the past five years that he was just so damn good that he could come out of retirement and beat one of the best P4P fighters in the world actually gives Leonard a lot more credit than the people who actually float that turd of an argument as a means of insulting him would want.

The fact is that Hagler hadn't deteriorated THAT MUCH from his prime he lost to Leonard for the same reasons that he let Antuofermo eek out a draw against him and the same reason he allowed Duran to fight neck and neck with him: He was a headcase who sometimes fought the stupidest fight you could imagine. Against Antuofermo, a busy guy who picked up steam as he went along Hagler took the opening rounds and then started switched back and forth between southpaw and orthodox. Hagler was never as effective fight orthodox as he though he was. This combined with Antuofermo's usual building of steam allowed him to claw his way back into the fight and by the end it was Hagler who was worn out despite all of the talk about his Spartan training and warrior attitude. Against Duran Hagler was fighting a smaller, older who only a year before had lost to Kirkland Laing based on Laing's activity in the fight. What does Hagler do? Instead of pressing the older, smaller fighter, making him work and tiring him out Hagler fights at leisurely pace giving far too much respect and barely nipped the decision in the final two rounds. Against Leonard Hagler wanted to show everyone he could box as good as Leonard and what does he do? He switch hits again, fighting the first four rounds orthodox and loses all of them. It wasn't until he gave up this foolish strategy that he was able to climb back into the fight but at this point the faster, smarter Leonard only needed to win three of the next eight rounds to take the decision. In that fight leonard was the one who was coming in at the disadvantage, not Hagler, how that narrative always gets switched around to a sob story for Hagler is beyond me. He should have won that fight, I know I was rooting for him in 87, he didn't and that's his own fault.

 

Thank you for not allowing personal dislike to factor into your post. If we only had a lot more of this honesty. And why he didn't come out in Destruct and Destroy mode is the real million dollar question.