Holyfield is a Top 3 HW ATG, you can't even deny this

I guess that I must be a fool, since you say so without any justification.

 

No, he's not a top 3 ATG heavyweight. Next.

 

Holyfield-

6'2 1/2", 77 1/2" reach and his weight in HW World Title fights ranged from 205 Lbs. (1st Bowe fight in 1992) - 221 Lbs. (1st Ruiz fight in 2000). He was 208 Lbs. In his 1st HW World Title fight in 1990 and 214 1/2 Lbs. in his last HW World Title fight in 2008. That's for all of you "Size Queens".

Holyfield went undefeated thru his first 8 years as a pro. During this time he went 28-0 (22) overall, 10-0 (7) in World Title Fights, 5-0 (2) vs. Hall of Famers, 3-0 (1) vs. Lineal HW World Champs (Douglas, Foreman, Holmes) and 11-0 (7) vs. World Title holders. He was the Undisputed World Champ in 2 weight divisions. He did not lose until age 30.

He would beat 4 more lineal HW Champs (Bowe, Tyson x2, Moorer, and Rahman)... more than anyone in the history of the sport. He is the only 4x HW World Title Holder (5x if you want to count the WBF, I don't). He also drew and lost a close decision to lineal HW Champ Lewis at the age of 36 1/2 and 37.

The Bowe fights. Holyfield had become disinterested in the sport due to the frustration from not being able to make a fight with Tyson a reality. He had actually made Bowe quit in a sparring session and thought very little of the big man (mistake). Bowe fought the best fight of his life and Holyfield fought well but in the end Bowe got the decision (even if he did get away with countless low blows and rough tactics... but it's a fight not a tickling contest so what can you really say?

Holyfield was well prepared and had worked with Manny Steward for the rematch. Bowe may not have not been quite as good as he was in their first fight (that was a one time thing for Bowe) but I doubt it would have mattered. Clear win for Holyfield.

In their 3rd fight Holyfield dropped Bowe in the 6th round and should have been able to finish him but something was obviously not right with Holyfield. Bowe was able to come back and stop Holyfield in the 8th round.

Holyfield probably should have retired after beating Bowe but we would have missed some good fights.

Prime vs. Prime, H2H, both fighters 100%... I think Holyfield wins most of the time vs. Bowe, Lewis, Tyson, and even Foreman. Same goes for Moorer, Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, Donald, Ibragimov, Valuev, and others. I do think a prime Holmes would win a close decision, same for Ali.

 

Top 3 is maybe kind of egregious.. I love Holy hes easily among my top 5 fav fighters but I dont think hes better than Ali, Foreman, holmes, and louis just to name a few.

 

That's how I feel, too. Although not better than the fellas you list, he's capable of beating them all. Just not as often as he'd be capable of losing to them and there's the rub.

I actually think he'd be all wrong for Ali. If Cooper and Chuvalo could give him problems in career 1 and Norton in career 2, Holyfield could do everything they did only better. Ali's huge advantage in speed allowed him to get away with a lot of mistakes and flaws in his game against most opponents. The difference in speed vs Evander would be less pronounced and some of Ali's shortcomings might come into play. Evander's chin could take it all night long; it was his body that suffered from the shots most of all and Ali was no McCallum.

 

Good post, yeah I think Holyfield had potential to beat any heavyweight on his best night.

I think stylistically an Ali fight would be tough for Holyfield, as he struggled with pure boxers. An Old larry holmes probably snatched 4 rounds so I think prime Ali would beat holyfield on points.

Regarding your points about chuvalo and Cooper; I felt Chuvalo largely got dominated, Cooper landed 1 good left hook on an overconfident Green Clay, and then paid the iron price for it.

For me Ali's flaws were a lot harder to take advantage of in his prime, any of his technical flaws were usually overshadowed by amazing hand speed and reflexes. Holyfield would be smart to not try to box on the outside with Ali, and Instead spam that left hook

 

I can't even deny it?

No he isn't.

Whoops. Sorry.

 

I think that is very debatable

Douglas obviously checked out after the Tyson upset. Holyfield was in the right place at the right time for that one

Twice lost to Bowe, once by ko

Lost to Michael Moorer

Beat a Tyson nowhere near his peak.

I don't really judge him based on anything after the second Lewis fight as he was way past it. Only good matchmaking and the decline of the division kept him relevant.

 

Denied. He was great, but not top 3.

Praise Jesus

 

no, he is not.

 

I'm in the corner of those who believe that Holyfield on his day gives ANY former champion a good fight. Be it Ali, Louis, Holmes...Holy would be competitive versus anyone.

I do think that he absolutely deserves a top 10 spot, but top 3 is pushing it a bit for me. The reasons why have been outlined by others already, so no need to retread old ground.

 

He tried to defend against Tyson, but Tyson pulled out. Then they looked around for another available contender. Damiani accepted the fight, but got cold feet and pulled out. Then they called on Bert Cooper.